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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Cadfan" data-source="post: 4737996" data-attributes="member: 40961">This is true, mostly.  Since this is an issue of a low AC scaling even lower, you can also start with a Strength of 12, and pick up chainmail at the paragon tier.  Or even an 11, if you can wait until epic.  I don't think I'd want to, though. How is that, exactly?  There are zero shaman powers that use intelligence that are available to the bear shaman. Zero. Also no feats. So, right.  This is NOT a natural tertiary stat of shamans.  And that kind of brings us right back to the central point, doesn't it?  WOTC advises the use of intelligence as a tertiary stat for constitution/wisdom shamans.  There is absolutely no possible reason why this is true.  Investing in it will not help your AC scaling problems, and will actually make it worse by causing you to sink points into an ability score that does literally nothing for you except give you AC boosts drip by drip, while strength sits by and offers you all the AC you could ever want, the same AC you'd get with a 24 intelligence at epic tier, all for the low low cost of 2 points you were going to dump into intellience anyways, and one feat out of the 16 you will eventually possess.This is true.  It is interesting that you feel the game should be designed on the premise that constitution/wisdom shamans are going to multiclass into an intelligence based class.  I do not think this.If you invest in intelligence at every possible option, along with wisdom, you will scale your armor class exactly as well as the standard curve.  Great for you!  That outcome will be exactly the same as a wisdom/intelligence shaman.  Of course, this begs the question- why are you playing a wisdom/constitution shaman if you are investing this heavily in intelligence?  And aren't you screwing yourself out of scaling all of your constitution based powers?  If you care little about constitution based powers, why are you a constitution/wisdom shaman? If you are not putting points in at every opportunity, if you are instead devoting some to wisdom, then splitting the remainder, congratulations.  Now your intellingence based attacks are scaling behind the normal rate, AND your AC is scaling behind the normal rate. Not that I think that this is in any way germane to anything at all.  As earlier stated, I do not believe that the construction of a constitution/wisdom shaman should be premised on the assumption that you will multiclass into wizard and then invest heavily in intelligence.Thanks.  In return, I responded to your theory of "its fine because you can multiclass your wisdom/constitution shaman into wizard" without laughing.  Ditto your assertion that two points of ability score and one feat are somehow too expensive a cost for an eventual +6 AC, while the cost of multiclassing a constitution/wisdom shaman into an intelligence based spellcasting class is somehow acceptable.A character with two points invested in strength and one feat invested in chainmail armor proficiency is also going to have powers and a party to back them up.  I don't know what else to say here, this is kind of obvious.  Also, I am not 100% convinced that accepting a functional AC of 10 is a good idea even with the best of power and party support.  Your typical enemy will be hitting you on a 2+ to 4+.The argument that a constitution/wisdom shaman should be investing heavily in intelligence to the detriment of constitution and wisdom because its too expensive to spend two of the points that would have gone into intelligence and one feat to get massively more AC than all the intelligence investment that character could possibly afford is not so much a dead horse, as a hideous rotting undead zombie horse.  Beating those is why I play D&D.There's no need to compromise when you're correct. 1. Approximately +6 AC is more than a good deal for the cost of two or three points of strength at character creation, and one feat.  It is, in fact, an amazing deal.  Probably the best deal on AC in the entire game. 2. It is a vastly better deal than splitting your ability score increases between constitution and intelligence, because that costs you just as many, or more likely far more, ability score points than you were going to spend on strength, and obtains less AC for the cost.  In the meantime you're making your class abilities worse by not investing in constitution.  The only thing it actually saves you is a feat.  A feat is not worth the cost of the damage to your ability scores and the lower AC you purchased thereby. 3. Even rear line characters need some armor class.  Your allies might be able to support you, but you gain nothing by intentionally building your character to eventually drop to the point where an enemy with a level standard attack bonus will hit you on an average die roll of 3. 4. It wasn't particularly nice of WOTC to tell people to invest in intelligence for their constitution/wisdom shamans, because people might listen.  Obviously some have.</blockquote>

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