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Message: <blockquote data-quote="tetrasodium" data-source="post: 8796865" data-attributes="member: 93670">Yes. I consider it a good thing that it's worded in a way that such a situation is only allowed if the gm chooses to make an exception to allow untrained to help untrained or skill A to help skill B as  a thing that is "relevant"* to the ability check. The help action is not working together or a group checks though & has a higher bar to be met for its use."The material here uses the rules in the 2014 Player’s Handbook, except where noted." That's the second sentence in the UA.  There are rules for "working together" & "group checks"(phb175)★ & those rules are distinct enough from the help action to even include the words "This requires the help action (See Chapter 9)".  The help action for the UA is on page 33 not phb ch9 but  but both of working together & group checks  are the purview of the gm.  A different rule exists for this scenario (two of them) despite all unfortunately giving the same bonus of advantage, but the identical result of advantage for all things is a secondary problem we do not yet know if 6e will be tackling.The GM is responsible for deciding when a d20 test** is needed†, what the dc of that test is††, is a skill is "relevant"*, and "the final say on whether your assistance is possible"❄.* "Relevant" is the word used on playtest packet2 page30 in ability checks**oh thank god I can use precise wording for a change† I think this is still DMG or 2014 phb, it doesn't seem changed by the UA.††UA pg 30 "Difficulty class" plus somewhere in the 5e dmg I'm sure❄Help action UA pg33★Those rules even specified "character who lacks that proficiency can’t help another character in that task."Actions are a thing that players can choose to simply do but all of the things people are pushing for the help action to include wording for are things the GM decides elsewhere in rules specific to those things as noted a few lines up.  Why is it needed for the  help action to consume those other two rules formerly under the GM's control? Is there any reason other than making it harder for the GM to engage in those decisions & choices with backing of the rules to support their decision when that decision is not one that flavors the players?  Players can attempt to work together in an example like the one by [USER=7031982]@Bill Zebub[/USER]  in <a href="https://www.enworld.org/threads/sharp-shooter-great-weapon-mastery.691972/post-8796802" target="_blank">post258</a> but everything about if & how those actions work & which rules they use is for the GM to decide not the player declaring they are taking the help action.  The ability check rules & help action already support using different skills like that example though, "You give advantage to the next ability check that ally makes with the chosen skill" from the help action(pg33) combines with "The rules or the DM determines whether a skill proficiency is relevant to the check" along with  "The DM has the final say on whether your assistance is possible" from ability checks:skills(pg30)[spoiler="Here's how it works"]<ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">The example in 258 starts with a scenario where assistance is not possible as the DM describes (the pull ring is too small).  <ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Help action grants the gm that ability</li> </ul></li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">That is changed by the action of sliding a mace handle through the ring<ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Such a thing could risk damaging the mace if 5.5/6e ultimately includes such rules.</li> </ul></li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">"With both of you pulling the door creaks open...".  The GM exercised their ability to "determine the Difficulty Class of an Ability Check"(pg30) & decided no roll was needed for the two </li> </ul>[/spoiler]The UA is limited to player's handbook rules so not including guidance for the GM is not too odd  in this case.  The 2014 DMG does not appear to include any meaningful guidance that might be useful for adjudicating these kinds of edge cases like 3.5 dmg 21 & 30 <a href="https://www.enworld.org/threads/giving-an-ad-d-feel-to-5e.679228/post-8241363" target="_blank">did in the past</a>. 4e May have had something useful for skill challenges but4e is not my strength & was pretty different.  In light of how hard the 2014 rules drop the ball there it might be good for a future packet to include at least a sidebar or secondary rule framework for the GM to use as this one does with the DC table</blockquote>

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