Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Next
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
Twitch
YouTube
Facebook (EN Publishing)
Facebook (EN World)
Twitter
Instagram
TikTok
Podcast
Features
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
Million Dollar TTRPG Kickstarters
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
Community
Playing the Game
Story Hour
Shemeska's Planescape Storyhour - (Updated 14February2024)
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="Sabrewulf" data-source="post: 6844714" data-attributes="member: 6782925"><p><strong>Analysis and Rampant Speculation (Improbably Spoilers)</strong></p><p></p><p>The last time I tried this, I sent Shemmy a private message, which was wise, because most of my theories are wrong. The best thing about the planescape story hour, in my opinion, is that most of Shemmy's short fiction indirectly connects to the over-arching story. Being obsessive, I found and read all of it. </p><p></p><p>Here is my understanding of the Baernaloths. Shemmy, on the off chance any of this is correct, my identity guesses have been obscured.</p><p>________________________</p><p></p><p>The Baernaloths repeatedly create the Blood War, which they refer to as the Great Experiment. The war is an experiment about Evil and a lure to corrupt Good. The Baernaloths have repeatedly created the evil planes, Baator, Gehenna and the Waste, in order to spawn the Tanari (Lawful Evil), the Baatezu (Chaotic Evil), and the Yugoloths (Neutral Evil). The Tanari and the Baatezu are byproducts from the creation and purification of the Yugoloths. </p><p></p><p>Shemmy's early <a href="http://mimir.planewalker.com/060629/methikus-sar-telmuril-the-flesh-sculptor-baernaloth-the-demented-6-13" target="_blank">"Flesh Sculptor"</a> Baernaloth cycle story and his short Baernaloth story<a href="http://mimir.planewalker.com/forum/fictionevil-seeps-through-baernaloths-fr-cosmology" target="_blank"> "Evil Seeps Through"</a> demonstrate these themes. Methikus Sar Telmuril, the most direct and terrifying Baernaloth, demonstrates contempt for Tanari, referring to them as side-effects and weapons, before fatally evolving them into mezzoloths. Other Baernaloths use the same language to refer to Baatezu and Tanari throughout the Story Hour and the Baernaloth Cycle.</p><p></p><p>This fully explains the Rule of Three, One of Three, One from Three, the one being the Yugoloths. The Yugoloths are the product and purpose of the Blood War, and the only one of the three evil races the Baernaloths hold in interest, rather than contempt. One of three races, created from three races. In the Baernaloth creation myth, a leader-Baernaloth, most likely Chorazin or Lazarius ibn Shartalan, possessed Carpocrates of Zrintor. He/she directed Carpocrates to create the Tanari and the Baatezu to bleed law and chaos from the Yugoloths, and then transformed Carpocrates into the first Ultroloth, a completely emotionless evil being. Carpocrates is now the General of Gehenna, the primary recipient of guidance from the Demented. </p><p></p><p>Returning to "Evil Seeps Through" we see a group of Baern in the Far Realm expressing scorn for various deities, and re-creating the evil planes, from which their creations will spawn. This introduces another Baernaloth theme, contempt for deities. The Baernaloths can be harmed by extremely powerful good beings like Celestials and Solars, as demonstrated in the Baernaloth Cycle Story <a href="http://mimir.planewalker.com/forum/daru-ib-shamiq-the-lie-weaver-baernaloth-demented" target="_blank">"The Lie Weaver."</a> The Maeldur, a Solar, is clearly capable of killing Baernaloth Daru Ib Samiq, the Lie Weaver, though he is ultimately corrupted and fails to do so. In order to survive while managing the Blood War, the Baernaloths work exclusively through proxies. </p><p></p><p>Thus, a Baernaloth who draws attention to him/herself, especially through public elevation to deity status, is in violation of the rule of three and subject to imprisonment or exile from the other 'lots. This explains why the Demented constantly admonish the Flesh Sculptor, who displays his power openly, and hate Apomps, the Triple-Aspected, who has elevated himself to deity status and unified Lawful, Neutral and Chaotic evil within himself and within the Ghereleths / Demodands. Any unification of Lawful, Neutral and Chaotic evil, like the seal at the bottom of the Ghoresh chasm, is antagonistic to Baernaloths in general and the Demented in particular. as is the attention associated with being a deity or dealing with deities. The 'lots HATE deities, like their favored children, and enjoy killing them more than they enjoy performing other evil deeds. </p><p></p><p>Baernaloths also punish other Baernaloths, such as Gormisekt Ap Portent, imprisoned beneath Portent. Though Gormisekt's crime is not specified, he/she recognizes Vorkannis the Ebon as [sblock]a formerly imprisoned baernaloth[/sblock], confirming what has been implied throughout the story hour. Vorkannis uses Baernaloth language and expressions (what is it you want), radiates evil, drinks from the Styx, vocalizes contempt for the Atraloths (night hag corruptions of Yugoloths) and kills several of them. <a href="http://www.enworld.org/forum/showthread.php?77613-Shemeska-s-Planescape-Storyhour-(Updated-29-Jan-2014)/page51" target="_blank">Telluria ibn Shartalan reciprocates familiarity and hostility toward Vorkannis during the Ebon's seizure of Khin Oin.</a></p><p></p><p>Around this incident, and in a discussion of things they did not predict, the Demented mention [sblock]"The Ghoresh Incident"[/sblock] as something contrary to their purpose. The fate of [sblock]Ghoresh[/sblock] is deliberately avoided. In post 1507 from the original story hour, it is revealed that <span style="color: #FFFFFF"><a href="http://www.enworld.org/forum/showthread.php?77613-Shemeska-s-Planescape-Storyhour-(Updated-29-Jan-2014)/page151&p=3441700&highlight=ghoresh#post3441700" target="_blank">Chorazin, Lazarius, Tellura and Ghoresh formed the four furnaces of Gehenna from the bodies of living titans</a>,</span>[sblock]meaning Ghoresh was present for the Baernaloth creation myth, but is not a member of the Demented and no longer among the Baernaloths who observe the Rule of Three.[/sblock]</p><p></p><p>[sblock]Ghoresh / Vorkannis'[/sblock] opposition to the Demented and the Rule of Three is strengthened by his relationship with the Ashsinger, a yet-unknown Void God who possesses Cilret Leobtav and communes with Apomps. All three of these beings have documented feuds with the Demented, and Apomps clearly falls in the category of evil unified (lawful, neutral and chaotic), rather than divided. The fact that they all three commune with each other further illustrates the divide between the hierarchical Baernaloths who manage the Blood War and rouge Baernaloths who seek power / actively participate in it.</p><p></p><p>In conclusion, the real mystery of this story is the identify of the Ashsinger, who drives Cilret Leobtav to commit some truly horrible deeds and to murder at least one living deity. The Ashsinger is possibly Tharizdun, who was corrupted by Larsdana Ap Neut at the behest/possession of Chorazin ibn Shartalan in <a href="https://forum.rpg.net/showthread.php?497469-Sell-Me-on-Yugoloths-and-Demodands/page2" target="_blank">this unnamed story</a>, tens of thousands of years before the events of the Story Hour. The Ashsinger could really be anything, but is from beyond the current reality, it created the <a href="http://www.enworld.org/forum/showthread.php?77613-Shemeska-s-Planescape-Storyhour-(Updated-29-Jan-2014)/page151&p=3441700&highlight=ghoresh#post3441700" target="_blank">Frozen Vale</a>, it communes with the most antagonistic and independent Baernaloths, and it no longer obeys the Demented. The Ashsinger is a truly frightening and apocalyptic idea, a villain's nightmare.</p><p></p><p>Anyway, all credit to Shemmy. Accurate or not, it would not be interesting to do this sort of literary analysis without such a broad, far-reaching, varied body of writing to read. This is only my poor attempt to see the boundaries of what he has been doing. Shemmy, you should really hire an editor, make this into an anthology, and publish it. Entirely possible that you already have, and I just missed that boat. </p><p></p><p>Sabre</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Sabrewulf, post: 6844714, member: 6782925"] [b]Analysis and Rampant Speculation (Improbably Spoilers)[/b] The last time I tried this, I sent Shemmy a private message, which was wise, because most of my theories are wrong. The best thing about the planescape story hour, in my opinion, is that most of Shemmy's short fiction indirectly connects to the over-arching story. Being obsessive, I found and read all of it. Here is my understanding of the Baernaloths. Shemmy, on the off chance any of this is correct, my identity guesses have been obscured. ________________________ The Baernaloths repeatedly create the Blood War, which they refer to as the Great Experiment. The war is an experiment about Evil and a lure to corrupt Good. The Baernaloths have repeatedly created the evil planes, Baator, Gehenna and the Waste, in order to spawn the Tanari (Lawful Evil), the Baatezu (Chaotic Evil), and the Yugoloths (Neutral Evil). The Tanari and the Baatezu are byproducts from the creation and purification of the Yugoloths. Shemmy's early [URL="http://mimir.planewalker.com/060629/methikus-sar-telmuril-the-flesh-sculptor-baernaloth-the-demented-6-13"]"Flesh Sculptor"[/URL] Baernaloth cycle story and his short Baernaloth story[URL="http://mimir.planewalker.com/forum/fictionevil-seeps-through-baernaloths-fr-cosmology"] "Evil Seeps Through"[/URL] demonstrate these themes. Methikus Sar Telmuril, the most direct and terrifying Baernaloth, demonstrates contempt for Tanari, referring to them as side-effects and weapons, before fatally evolving them into mezzoloths. Other Baernaloths use the same language to refer to Baatezu and Tanari throughout the Story Hour and the Baernaloth Cycle. This fully explains the Rule of Three, One of Three, One from Three, the one being the Yugoloths. The Yugoloths are the product and purpose of the Blood War, and the only one of the three evil races the Baernaloths hold in interest, rather than contempt. One of three races, created from three races. In the Baernaloth creation myth, a leader-Baernaloth, most likely Chorazin or Lazarius ibn Shartalan, possessed Carpocrates of Zrintor. He/she directed Carpocrates to create the Tanari and the Baatezu to bleed law and chaos from the Yugoloths, and then transformed Carpocrates into the first Ultroloth, a completely emotionless evil being. Carpocrates is now the General of Gehenna, the primary recipient of guidance from the Demented. Returning to "Evil Seeps Through" we see a group of Baern in the Far Realm expressing scorn for various deities, and re-creating the evil planes, from which their creations will spawn. This introduces another Baernaloth theme, contempt for deities. The Baernaloths can be harmed by extremely powerful good beings like Celestials and Solars, as demonstrated in the Baernaloth Cycle Story [URL="http://mimir.planewalker.com/forum/daru-ib-shamiq-the-lie-weaver-baernaloth-demented"]"The Lie Weaver."[/URL] The Maeldur, a Solar, is clearly capable of killing Baernaloth Daru Ib Samiq, the Lie Weaver, though he is ultimately corrupted and fails to do so. In order to survive while managing the Blood War, the Baernaloths work exclusively through proxies. Thus, a Baernaloth who draws attention to him/herself, especially through public elevation to deity status, is in violation of the rule of three and subject to imprisonment or exile from the other 'lots. This explains why the Demented constantly admonish the Flesh Sculptor, who displays his power openly, and hate Apomps, the Triple-Aspected, who has elevated himself to deity status and unified Lawful, Neutral and Chaotic evil within himself and within the Ghereleths / Demodands. Any unification of Lawful, Neutral and Chaotic evil, like the seal at the bottom of the Ghoresh chasm, is antagonistic to Baernaloths in general and the Demented in particular. as is the attention associated with being a deity or dealing with deities. The 'lots HATE deities, like their favored children, and enjoy killing them more than they enjoy performing other evil deeds. Baernaloths also punish other Baernaloths, such as Gormisekt Ap Portent, imprisoned beneath Portent. Though Gormisekt's crime is not specified, he/she recognizes Vorkannis the Ebon as [sblock]a formerly imprisoned baernaloth[/sblock], confirming what has been implied throughout the story hour. Vorkannis uses Baernaloth language and expressions (what is it you want), radiates evil, drinks from the Styx, vocalizes contempt for the Atraloths (night hag corruptions of Yugoloths) and kills several of them. [URL="http://www.enworld.org/forum/showthread.php?77613-Shemeska-s-Planescape-Storyhour-(Updated-29-Jan-2014)/page51"]Telluria ibn Shartalan reciprocates familiarity and hostility toward Vorkannis during the Ebon's seizure of Khin Oin.[/URL] Around this incident, and in a discussion of things they did not predict, the Demented mention [sblock]"The Ghoresh Incident"[/sblock] as something contrary to their purpose. The fate of [sblock]Ghoresh[/sblock] is deliberately avoided. In post 1507 from the original story hour, it is revealed that [COLOR=#FFFFFF][URL="http://www.enworld.org/forum/showthread.php?77613-Shemeska-s-Planescape-Storyhour-(Updated-29-Jan-2014)/page151&p=3441700&highlight=ghoresh#post3441700"]Chorazin, Lazarius, Tellura and Ghoresh formed the four furnaces of Gehenna from the bodies of living titans[/URL],[/COLOR][sblock]meaning Ghoresh was present for the Baernaloth creation myth, but is not a member of the Demented and no longer among the Baernaloths who observe the Rule of Three.[/sblock] [sblock]Ghoresh / Vorkannis'[/sblock] opposition to the Demented and the Rule of Three is strengthened by his relationship with the Ashsinger, a yet-unknown Void God who possesses Cilret Leobtav and communes with Apomps. All three of these beings have documented feuds with the Demented, and Apomps clearly falls in the category of evil unified (lawful, neutral and chaotic), rather than divided. The fact that they all three commune with each other further illustrates the divide between the hierarchical Baernaloths who manage the Blood War and rouge Baernaloths who seek power / actively participate in it. In conclusion, the real mystery of this story is the identify of the Ashsinger, who drives Cilret Leobtav to commit some truly horrible deeds and to murder at least one living deity. The Ashsinger is possibly Tharizdun, who was corrupted by Larsdana Ap Neut at the behest/possession of Chorazin ibn Shartalan in [URL="https://forum.rpg.net/showthread.php?497469-Sell-Me-on-Yugoloths-and-Demodands/page2"]this unnamed story[/URL], tens of thousands of years before the events of the Story Hour. The Ashsinger could really be anything, but is from beyond the current reality, it created the [URL="http://www.enworld.org/forum/showthread.php?77613-Shemeska-s-Planescape-Storyhour-(Updated-29-Jan-2014)/page151&p=3441700&highlight=ghoresh#post3441700"]Frozen Vale[/URL], it communes with the most antagonistic and independent Baernaloths, and it no longer obeys the Demented. The Ashsinger is a truly frightening and apocalyptic idea, a villain's nightmare. Anyway, all credit to Shemmy. Accurate or not, it would not be interesting to do this sort of literary analysis without such a broad, far-reaching, varied body of writing to read. This is only my poor attempt to see the boundaries of what he has been doing. Shemmy, you should really hire an editor, make this into an anthology, and publish it. Entirely possible that you already have, and I just missed that boat. Sabre [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
Playing the Game
Story Hour
Shemeska's Planescape Storyhour - (Updated 14February2024)
Top