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<blockquote data-quote="doctorbadwolf" data-source="post: 7422741" data-attributes="member: 6704184">You're accusing me of nonsensical things that I've clearly not done. I'd love to see a post with that poll. Perhaps add a 4th option for people who houserule the feat significantly, even without this ruling? No, he's definately wrong. Bonus actions add far more to the game than any rules confusion about a feat takes away from it. I'm not sure what's confusing about his answers. Can you elaborate? Two weapon fighting allows you to attack as a bonus action after making an attack with the attack action. That seems completely clear, to me. That's explicitly different from &quot;when you use the attack action&quot;. If the wording says you can do Y because you've done X, you can't do Y unless you've already done X. In the case of TWF, X is making an attack with the attack action. So, going strictly by the wording, you can make an attack with the attack action, use your bonus action to make an offhand attack, and then either make another attack, grapple, shove, or anything else you can do that &quot;replaces&quot; a normal attack with the attack action.On the other hand, SM allows you to shove as a bonus action &quot;after you use the attack action&quot;, which means that the entire attack action must resolve before you can use a bonus action to shove. If it used the &quot;attack as part of the attack action&quot; wording, you'd be able to &quot;nest&quot; it within the attack action, but you'd still not be able to bonus-shove and then attack twice.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="doctorbadwolf, post: 7422741, member: 6704184"] You're accusing me of nonsensical things that I've clearly not done. I'd love to see a post with that poll. Perhaps add a 4th option for people who houserule the feat significantly, even without this ruling? No, he's definately wrong. Bonus actions add far more to the game than any rules confusion about a feat takes away from it. I'm not sure what's confusing about his answers. Can you elaborate? Two weapon fighting allows you to attack as a bonus action after making [I]an attack [/I]with the attack action. That seems completely clear, to me. That's explicitly different from "when you use the attack action". If the wording says you can do Y because you've done X, you can't do Y unless you've already done X. In the case of TWF, X is making an attack with the attack action. So, going strictly by the wording, you can make an attack with the attack action, use your bonus action to make an offhand attack, and then either make another attack, grapple, shove, or anything else you can do that "replaces" a normal attack with the attack action. On the other hand, SM allows you to shove as a bonus action "after you use the attack action", which means that the entire attack action must resolve before you can use a bonus action to shove. If it used the "attack as part of the attack action" wording, you'd be able to "nest" it within the attack action, but you'd still not be able to bonus-shove and then attack twice. [/QUOTE]

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