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<blockquote data-quote="5ekyu" data-source="post: 7552062" data-attributes="member: 6919838">So let's look at your hold person example...They shoved someone, then moved, got held mid-move and ended their turn...How is that a &quot;problem&quot; if its &quot;a shove action (bonus action) and move then turn interrupted&quot; but not a problem if it were &quot;a shove action (attack action) and move then turn interrupted&quot;?It's a net result of the same exact set of events in the game world with the same results but one is a problem due to the categories the events were put into being different?To be clear, I am firmly in the camp that says you must use the attack action (at least one attack) before you earn the BA shove from that feat - but the example you give seems to be only a problem in a meta-sense without any in-game-world sense to it.My in-game-world rationale is the attacks are what sets up the shove opening- it's a combo move - one sets up the other - but the reverse of what folks had wanted. So you cannot create the &quot;opportunity&quot; for the &quot;quick shove&quot; until you commit to the attacks - by doing them.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="5ekyu, post: 7552062, member: 6919838"] So let's look at your hold person example... They shoved someone, then moved, got held mid-move and ended their turn... How is that a "problem" if its "a shove action (bonus action) and move then turn interrupted" but not a problem if it were "a shove action (attack action) and move then turn interrupted"? It's a net result of the same exact set of events in the game world with the same results but one is a problem due to the categories the events were put into being different? To be clear, I am firmly in the camp that says you must use the attack action (at least one attack) before you earn the BA shove from that feat - but the example you give seems to be only a problem in a meta-sense without any in-game-world sense to it. My in-game-world rationale is the attacks are what sets up the shove opening- it's a combo move - one sets up the other - but the reverse of what folks had wanted. So you cannot create the "opportunity" for the "quick shove" until you commit to the attacks - by doing them. [/QUOTE]

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