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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Syrsuro" data-source="post: 4448869" data-attributes="member: 58162">Perhaps. But now you have crossed into NPC/Creature rules rather than PC rules. And the same rules do not govern both. Second - can you point to where it specifies that weapon feats such as Polearm Gamble work when the polearm is wielded one handed? Since the feats are written specifically for the PCs, you can't. Its just not covered by the RAW at present. We can infer that it wouldn't change, because its not described as changing but that is a fallacy since the rules were not written to apply to NPCs or Creatures. But most importantly - the hypothetical under discussion is Shield Push together with Fighter Combat Challenge (now extended to a large creature).  Combat Challenge specifies: whenever a marked enemy that is adjacent to you shifts or makes an attack that does not include you, you can make a melee basic attack against that enemy as an immediate interrupt.Shield Push specifies: If you hit a foe with an attack granted by your Combat Challenge class feature, you push the target 1 square after dealing damage. You cannot use a Shield Push with Polearm Gambit because Polearm Gambit grants an Opportunity Attack, not a Combat Challenge attack. More importantly, CC specifically requries them to be adjacent.   ---------------------------------------------------------- But lets assume that we are discussing this a year from now, and in the mean time an official PC race (not a back-of-the-book MM race) exists that is large size (note: at present, afaik, none of the races in the MM allow for large PCs) and has a power that allows it to push following Polearm Gamble. Very hypothetical. But lets go on....  I disagree. Although we are definately in vague language territory here.Not to mention we are talking about a hypothetical PC race using hypothetical feats and thus are not remotely in the realm of RAW. But as I see it, A normal move triggers an OA when the target moves out of the adjacent square. Polearm Gamble triggers when the target moves into the adjacent square. I think that is a significant difference that applies here, especially when reworded as follows: A normal move triggers an OA when it is initiated (at the start of the move).Polearm Gamble triggers when it is competed (at the end of the move). note:  for the purposes of this discussion, the term 'move' refers to the micromove taking the creature from one square to another, not the results of the entire move action. Because of this distinction, I would rule that a triggered push (Shield Push) in the first case pushes the moving character out of the adjacent square, acting before the move starts while the PG-triggered (hypothetical) push in the second case pushes the moving character out of the adjacent square, acting at the conclusion of the move, after the initial square has been abandoned.  Agreed. In fact, in my ruling above the shift has already begun and thus has been used. To put it another way, they shifted. They just didn't end up where they wanted to when the shift was over. But its a ruling, not a rule. And a hypothetical ruling at that. Carl</blockquote>

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