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Message: <blockquote data-quote="thenightgaunt" data-source="post: 5510797" data-attributes="member: 6673567">Not a tortoise formation actually, but a shield wall. Kind of a simpler, less effective but more maneuverable version. More middle ages than greek/roman like the tortoise/phalanx. 2nd Ed. D&D had rules for it (counts as 50% cover vs missiles, and a +1 AC bonus to people in the wall.) but I don't recall if 3rd Ed. did. The nice thing was that you could have your polearm infantry behind the shieldmen, attacking their targets with only a -2 penalty to hit (still 2nd Ed.) and at the same time each sheildman gets a normal attack with a 1-handed weapon.  What was the Shield Wall teamwork feat from? It's sounds right as far a bonus feat (say for soldiers like the Spartans who trained specifically in the technique). But the thing is, you get the benifit from the formation even without excessive training. It's just like a spear hedge in that regard.  As for crossbows, they are/were cheaper to make than regular bows, required less training, and they were more powerfull and more accurate than normal bows. To aim a bow you pull back and hold the arrow, aim and release. The longer you had to aim, the longer you had to hold back the force on the string (talking about old bows, not modern composites). That could make one's aim get a bit shaky. A crossbow is like a rifle, you can take your time, rest it against a support, aim, breath, and take your shot whenever you liked. Historically, they were better than bows in almost every way. And yes heros are stronger than most NPCs. But heros don't really matter in the grand scheme of things. What matters is that the NPC king of the kingdom that the PC's are in, is going to want to arm his men with the best/most effective weapons possible. An elf PC with a longbow can kick serious ass, but a group of 10 armed soldiers with crossbows should make anyone hesitate.  They were ignored largely in 3rd because they were only really fleshed out in the players option books for 2nd. And so that's carried over into 4th and Pathfinder really. I do like Frankthedm's house rule suggestion though. I just wish there was something official as I'm not the GM at the moment.</blockquote>

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