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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Bladesinger_Boy" data-source="post: 5068747" data-attributes="member: 87403">Defensively Fighting, Offensively FightingSo, we agree that shields should help defense more.  Good.  My original version what that the base shields bonus, +1 to +4, doubled when fighting defensively or using total defense or even with at least a -2 penalty with combat expertise.  Sadrik, you did an increased combat expertise ratio, like a +2AC per -1 or +3AC per -2.  Is that correct?  That might be useful in removing the ridiculous feat chains that TWF gets into like TW Defense.  Instead, we could just say that when using combat expertise with a shield, you get a +2AC per -1 to hit.  Do we need to cap this at an extra +1 per base shield bonus, so that Bucklers and Tower Shields don't both allow -5 to hit for +10AC stuff?Should Fighting Defensively, Total Defense, and Combat Expertise all be rolled into one AC-for-attack Penalty trade off?  Just like Power Attack with one-handed versus two-handed weapons, we just change the ratio depending on feats, weapons/shields used, class features, etc.Okay, what about this.DEFENSIVE ATTACKA character's base defensive attack ratio is -2 to hit per +1 dodge AC.  When defensively attacking, the character can take a -2 penalty to hit per tier (-2 at 1st, -4 at 11th, -6 at 21st).Various things can increase the dodge bonus ratio granted by +1 each, as listed below:- using a Shield- having your off-hand free (maybe?)- having the Combat Expertise feat- having the Elaborate Parry class feature- being adjacent to at least two other allies also using Defensive Attack  So, some examples:A) a 2nd level Fighter with a Tower Shield can defensively fight and take a -2 to hit for a +2ACB) an 12th level Duelist fighting with two weapons with the Elaborate Parry class feature and combat expertise can defensively fight for a -4 to hit to gain a +6ACC) a 24th level Bladesinger fighting with his off-hand free, wearing a buckler, and possesing the combat expertise feat can defensively fight and take a -6 penalty to hit for a +12ACAs much as I love Bladesingers, maybe the off-hand free bonus shouldn't stack with having a shield, or should require another feat (Single-Handed Defense or something).OFFENSIVE ATTACKIf I were to do the same thing to Power attack...A character's base offensive attack ratio is -2 to hit per +1 damage with all weapons.  When offensively attacking, the character can take a -2 penalty to hit per tier (-2 at 1st, -4 at 11th, -6 at 21st).Various things can increase the damage bonus ratio granted by +1 each, as listed below:- using a Two-handed Weapon- having the Power Attack feat- having that Frenzied Berserker class feature... Improved Power Attack?- not using a shield (maybe?) or any armor heavier than light armor- status effects like "Raging" So, some examples:A) a 2nd level Barbarian using a Greataxe, with no shield or armor, raging can offensively fight and take a -2 to hit for a +4 damageB) an 12th level Frenzied Berserker fighting with two handaxes, improved Power Attack class feature, no shield and light armor, and Power Attack, and raging can offensively fight for a -4 to hit to gain a +10 damage (per handaxe)C) a 24th level Bard/Barbarian fighting with a Greatsword, wearing no shield and light armor, and possesing the Power Attack feat, and Raging can defensively fight and take a -6 penalty to hit for a +15 damage</blockquote>

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