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Message: <blockquote data-quote="drnuncheon" data-source="post: 627830" data-attributes="member: 96">Templates, on the other hand, tend to increase the power of a creature without increasing the HD - which is the problem.  The shifter's HD limit means they can become a 30 HD creature, or, (if templates are allowed), a 30 HD creature with 6 templates stacked onto it.Anyway, I'd use the following guidelines:* Advanced creatures are right out.  You can't become a stronger-than-average gorilla, what makes you think you can become a bigger-than-average gorilla?* If you allow the use of templates, then templated creatures are assumed to be separate creatures.  You can't turn into a half-fiend minotaur if you've seen a minotaur and a half-fiend human - 'half-fiend minotaur' is a new type of creature, and you have to be familiar with one to turn into one.* Just because the player wants to become a paragon pseudonatural lernaen pyrohydra, and just because it's possible within the rules, doesn't mean that one even exists for him to become familiar with.  If you as the DM decide that no such thing has ever existed, he's out of luck.* Make the player keep track of and document unusual forms he is familiar with, and how he acquired that familiarity. If he can say "you threw a half-fiendish ghostly red dragon at us back in the Caves of Peril" then it should be OK to wild shape into that.* If you're making this character at a high level, consider this: it takes ~13 encounters of a given CR to bump you up a level.  Realistically maybe, what, 10% of those are going to be with templated creatures?  Have him make a list of the templated creatures he's encountered, one each CR from 1 to (lvl+1), and those are the ones he's familiar with.  Make him pre-figure the stats for all of the forms, too, to take the work off of you. (I'm doing this for one player's summoning character.)J</blockquote>

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