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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Shadewyn" data-source="post: 4392918" data-attributes="member: 6340">Wow I am amazed that so many people are confused on this.  People will go to amazing lengths to mis read rules in their favor. Why have Poelarm Gamble?Orc walks up to a guy with a polearm and punches him in the face.  Simulationists would suggest that a person with a large long stick might get the first whack.  Gamist design response is to allow an attack as the orc closes.What is an OA?You may make an OA if someone leaves a square you threaten is the basic rule.This basic rule is trumped by the more specific rule of shifting, teleporting, and forced movement prohibits OAs without exception ANYWHERE in the game.Cant stress this enough ... there is not a SINGLE rule or ability in all of 4E that allows you to take an OA if someone shifts, teleports or force moves.To break this specific rule they added a more specific rule called Combat Challenge on fighters to allow an attack (NOT AN OA) against adjacent targets that shift.But I REALLY wanna misread stuff for my own advantage...Tough.Form a logic chain folks its just not that hard.So we know that for the normal polearm user ...1) RANGE = You do not threaten at reach2) TRIGGER = You can only generate an OA if they leave an adjacent square3) EFFECT = Make a basic melee attack4) EXCEPTION = You cannot generate an OA if they shift, slide, teleport.5) CLASS SPECIFIC COUNTER TO EXCEPTION = If you are a fighter and the target is adjacent you may engage in a Combat Challenge if the target shifts.Those rules in order handle all the movement based attack generation that the average polearm user will ever get.  In order of GENERAL to SPECIFIC.We then add a feat to modify the logic chain ...1) RANGE = You do not threaten at reach2) TRIGGER = You can only generate an OA if they leave an adjacent square or when they enter an adjacent square3) EFFECT = Make a basic melee attack4) EXCEPTION = You cannot generate an OA if they shift, slide, teleport.5) CLASS SPECIFIC COUNTER TO EXCEPTION = If you are a fighter and the target is adjacent you may engage in a Combat Challenge if the target shifts.------------Enter the whacked out logic folksWhat the Polearm Gamble cheese player are trying to do is use the feat to add the additional condition and then shuffle the logic chain to the following.1) RANGE = You do not threaten at reach2) TRIGGER = You can only generate an OA if they leave an adjacent square 3) EFFECT = Make a basic melee attack4) EXCEPTION = You cannot generate an OA if they shift, slide, teleport.5) CLASS SPECIFC COUNTER TO EXCEPTION = If you are a fighter and the target is adjacent you may engage in a Combat Challenge if the target shifts.6) CHEESE ~ or when they enter an adjacent square, go to step 3 for effect, ignore all exceptionsNow why is this really bad logic?  Like the kind of bad logic that makes companies have to tell users of their products things like "Dont use you toaster oven in the tub while you take a bath" due to consumers saying "well you never told us we couldnt or may get hurt if we did ..."First off the feat gives a potential OA ... and OAs caused from shifts, teleports, and slides are negated by specific rule.Secondly the feat never says it invalidates the the exeptions of shifting, sliding, and teleporting negate OAs.  THEREFORE IT DOESNT.Specific > General.  If you cant figure it out from common sense of what the feat is describing ...If you cant follow the simple logic chain ...THEN STAY AWAY FROM TOASTER OVENS NEAR YOUR BATHTUB ... for you are at risk ...</blockquote>

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