Shifting while crawling: 2 views (Shadownhaunt spoilers!)

[On Puget Sound]

My wife and I just finished playing the Shadowhaunt adventure twice, with two different GMs. One played that you could shift while prone, and wone played that you couldn't (but made an exception when Covering Strike allowed an ally to shift, even though that ally was prone at the time). This made quite a difference with the two animated statues, due to their "keep them down" and "kick them while they're down" powers.

So can you shift while prone?
YES - because there is really no difference between standing up (move, no OA) then shifting (move, no OA) or shifting, then standing up. Because it's cinematic - heroes knocked down are always rolling and tumbling away from the next finishing strike that would pulverize their face. Because you can do almost anything prone that you can do while standing. Because there is no rule we can find that says you can't.

NO - because knocking someone down is already of very limited use compared to 3E; allowing crawling shifts makes it less worthwhile and fun. Because you can't shift into difficult terrain, and crawling costs the same movement as difficult terrain. Because you couldn't "5-foot step" while crawling in 3.5, and it seems wrong to be able to now. Because there is no rule we can find that says you can.

How do you play it?

 

[Lauberfen]

I think the movement rate is the best indication from the rules- you can't shift any other time you move half, so I think you shouldn't be able to now.

I also agree with the other reasons for not shifting while prone- granted you could crawl away realistically, but that would also tend to provoke in real life as well- when someone crawls away from an armed opponent you'd think they were totally at their mercy.

 

[tomtill]

Yes you can shift while prone. Shifting is a move action. Double shifting is a double move action. The section on difficult terrain in the double move action description makes it clear you can use a double shift to shift one square into difficult terrain (even though it is not stated explicitly under the difficult terrain section, double shifting is explicitly listed in the double move description). By extension, shifting while prone can be accomplished as a double move action. I would probably describe this as a roll rather than a crawl.

 

[Ander00]

Yes. You can crawl up to half your speed, which is different from each square costing 1 additional square to enter. You can usually shift while prone just like you could if you weren't prone (1 square for 1 move action).


cheers

 

[GoLu]

I've yet to find any rule limiting your actions while prone, so you could probably get a good running start and jump over a pit, all while prone. That said, I doubt any DM would let that work in game. Myself, I'm inclined to disallow shifting while prone (or, in fact, any move action aside from crawling and standing up).

 

[tomtill]

Yes. You can crawl up to half your speed, which is different from each square costing 1 additional square to enter. You can usually shift while prone just like you could if you weren't prone (1 square for 1 move action).
cheers

On reflection, I agree.

Supporting arguments:

PHB p 277 Slowed

Your speed becomes 2. This speed applies to all your movement modes, but it does not apply to teleportation or to a pull, a push, or a slide.

This does not call out shift as being an exception, indicating that reduced speed does not affect a shift, as long as you can move a minimum of 1 sq.

PHB p 292 Shift

Difficult Terrain: Because each square of difficult terrain costs 1 extra square to enter, you can’t normally shift into a square of difficult terrain, unless you’re able to shift multiple squares or you’re able to ignore the effects of difficult terrain.

Special Movement Modes: You can’t shift when using a form of movement that requires a skill check.

Again, while it explicitly calls out movement into difficult terrain (which requires 1 extra square to enter), as Ander00 pointed out, this is not the same as moving at half speed. And, while it specifically calls out movement that requires a skill check, it doesn't list shift among special movement modes affected.

Given this data, it seems to be the intent of the rules to allow shifting while prone without additional penalty (unless an errata declares otherwise—the lack of data is always a poor excuse for data).

I'm OK with this, though again, I'd describe that as a roll while watching to see where the blow is coming down, and maybe blocking with weapon or shield, rather than a heads-down crawl. That's why it takes a move action to shift 1 sq (for most) as opposed to crawling at half speed. In concept, just like regular shifting, and certainly something we see in movies and in martial arts demonstrations.

 

[On Puget Sound]

Thanks all! I'm inclined to be more persuaded by the "yes" arguments here, and that's the way I'll GM it for my groups. I like the idea of requiring a double move; that neatly resolves issues like Covering Strike. The rogue Tumble power is also easy to interpret with this; each square counts two so you move 1/4 your speed with this power.

I might allow an "accelerated crawl" as an Acrobatics stunt if a player asked to try it; each threatening foe's (Reflex +5) is the DC. Failure means that foe gets an AO against you as you roll away.

 

[dcyale]

The PHB, page 288, in "crawling" says, "If you leave a square adjacent to an enemy, that enemy can make an opportunity attack against you." That is specific to crawling.

Don't rules for shifting can cover all types of movement. I.E., if a flying creature is hovering in an adjacent square doesn't it provoke by moving away as opposed to shifting? Wouldn't that be a more general rule?

 

[Syrsuro]

I have to go with "Yes, at half speed" (and one-half of 1 is alway 0). There isn't any specific rule saying that you cannot shift while prone, but there is a clear general rule saying that while prone you move at half speed and no exception rule for shifting that would exempt it from this general rule.

Conclusion: Shifting is possible but unless you can shift more than two squares normally you can only move 0 squares with a shift.

And yes, the counterargument is the line "If you leave a square adjacent to an enemy, that enemy can make an opportunity attack against you." from the Crawl description. But that is, imho, simply a restatement of the general rule "If an enemy leaves a square adjacent to you, you can make an oportunity attack against that enemy." which appears in the opportunity attack section, followed there (but not in the crawl section) immediately by the exception to the general rule, which is that shifting and forced movement avoid that OA. The question really comes down to whether the ommission of the shift special case in the crawl description was intentional because it doesn't apply to crawl or intentional because they didn't see any point in repeating a rule that is printed elsewhere (or simply an oversight and no conclusion can be drawn).

To put it differently - the half-movement interpretation makes it so that under most circumstances you cannot shift, but leaving open the possibility of a shift under specific circumstances, such as when the defender takes a double move or is especially shifty. Which feels about right, imho.


Carl

 

[AidyBaby]

Crawling 'up to half your speed' (i.e. speed of 6 = 3 squares max at 1 per square) is different to crawling 'at half your speed' (i.e. speed to 6 = 3 squares at 2 per square). The former means you can shift (it costs 1 square), the latter means you can't (it costs two squares, unless you double shift-move).

As crawling says move up to half your speed, I reckon shift = OK.