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Message: <blockquote data-quote="shilsen" data-source="post: 3304213" data-attributes="member: 198">Yeah, yeah - that's what we all say when we're dissing poor Gareth <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f600.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":D" title="Big grin    :D"  data-smilie="8"data-shortname=":D" />Agreed. I think the concept of the paladin with "stick up ass" as a class feature is somewhat of a self-fulfilling prophecy. As you say, the nature of the code means it requires a significant amount of (almost blind) faith in oneself and one's principles to adhere to it. And the very knowledge that you adhere to that code and have special dispensation from your god is likely to have at least some influence on even the most level-headed of paladins. A milder version of the "power corrupts" dictum, I guess.Of course, it should be clear from my use of Cedric and posting on various paladin threads (not to mention creating the original Cedric in the thread in my sig) that I think it's quite possible to move beyond that archetype, but I do think it's quite a reasonable archetype for the majority of paladins.Nameless (and to a lesser extent, the rest) would agree with you. There's a fair amount of in-character joking at the table that Gareth's current inability to detect evil is cutting down the PCs' ability to judge whom to trust, since they can normally trust anyone he detects as evil <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" />That last sentence is a very nice way to put it. I think that's one of the many areas where he stands in stark contrast to Cedric. The latter has moved to the degree of self-confidence (as well as knowledge of his own limits) that he doesn't have to be the least bit brash. Or, to put it more succinctly, Gareth often feels the need to tell people what he is. Cedric simply is.You trying to give me ideas <img src="http://www.enworld.org/forum/images/smilies/devious.png"  class="smilie" loading="lazy" alt=":]" title="Devious    :]" data-shortname=":]" />?Actually, of the entire bunch, I'd say Six right now is the only one who's good at playing politics. Which works perfectly with him suddenly coming out of the Demon Wastes with a +4 boost to Int, Wis and Cha. I'd agree with most of the above, but if you're referring to Gareth as the self-conscious hero, I don't really think that applies. He's not very good at stepping back and looking at himself. Which, admittedly, is mostly an intentional character trait. Avi's discussed with me more than once that he's intentionally playing Gareth as somewhat delusional, especially when it comes to himself.I don't know if it helps, but when I'm thinking about Cedric's relationship with the Law aspect of alignment (he's quite undisputedly Good), I tend to heavily emphasize the aspects of consistency. He does surprisingly few things on a whim, though someone catching just one day of his activities may think of it as such. As a minor example, he'll be drinking every day, just about the same amount, and will never ever be found drunk, because he knows precisely what he can handle and he does exactly that amount. And that applies to most aspects of his life. I actually see him as very self-consciously mechanistic, perpetually aware of and questioning himself, and making sure that he consistently does exactly what he must to walk the line between light and dark. The PCs would get a lot more of that if he showed up more, but I really like the NPC, so I'm making sure to give him very little face time because I don't want him stealing the PCs' thunder at all.Since I'm getting to play out his attainment of paladinhood in another campaign where I run him as a PC, I'll probably post a little writeup of his actual attainment of it on the "World's Worst Paladin" thread when it happens, and mention it here in case you or anyone else is interested.</blockquote>

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