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<blockquote data-quote="Jay Verkuilen" data-source="post: 7760538" data-attributes="member: 6873517"><p>Guns are indeed cheaper for real battle conditions compared to most muscle-powered weapons. Nevertheless in real life melee combat survived for a LONG time at the small group level. It was important in World War I and the last recorded bayonet charge of the US Army was in the Korean War (at Pork Chop Hill, assuming S. L. A. Marshall's account is accurate), which had reduced to essentially World War I like conditions that are, in many ways, strongly akin to a dungeon. The last recorded cavalry charge of the US Army was in 1942. There was lots of close-quarters fighting in the Vietnam War, too. The NVA and VC had noticed, even when fighting the French, that getting up close and personal helped negate the substantial firepower advantage that their foes had, so that's exactly the tactics they adopted: Get in very close using infiltration tactics and overrun prepared positions, thereby neutralizing the firepower advantage. It was incredibly costly but ultimately worked. That's just the US. I'm sure there are plenty of other examples in other countries' military histories. If the conditions that led to World War I-type battlefield environments arrive again, you can be sure melee will be back. </p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p> </p><p>Um, no. Not without getting <em>very</em> lucky. A rifled slug will reliably kill a deer, which is roughly the size of a human, bucks being about 100 kg. An African elephant is 6000 kg(!), pushing towards two orders of magnitude larger. The real killer of the elephant herds in Africa was the AK-47 as it turns out emptying a few magazines into an elephant and then waiting for it to bleed out works pretty well despite the weakness of the individual rounds. If you want to drop an elephant with one shot, you need something <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elephant_gun" target="_blank">really big</a>, and even then. </p><p></p><p>But you're mixing in the way guns work in the real world with the way they would work in a game, which won't totally line up. I mean, neither do swords or any other damage type. </p><p></p><p>Gun stats would be made to fit the rules. </p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Presumably the DM exercises authority over what's in his or her game?</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Jay Verkuilen, post: 7760538, member: 6873517"] Guns are indeed cheaper for real battle conditions compared to most muscle-powered weapons. Nevertheless in real life melee combat survived for a LONG time at the small group level. It was important in World War I and the last recorded bayonet charge of the US Army was in the Korean War (at Pork Chop Hill, assuming S. L. A. Marshall's account is accurate), which had reduced to essentially World War I like conditions that are, in many ways, strongly akin to a dungeon. The last recorded cavalry charge of the US Army was in 1942. There was lots of close-quarters fighting in the Vietnam War, too. The NVA and VC had noticed, even when fighting the French, that getting up close and personal helped negate the substantial firepower advantage that their foes had, so that's exactly the tactics they adopted: Get in very close using infiltration tactics and overrun prepared positions, thereby neutralizing the firepower advantage. It was incredibly costly but ultimately worked. That's just the US. I'm sure there are plenty of other examples in other countries' military histories. If the conditions that led to World War I-type battlefield environments arrive again, you can be sure melee will be back. Um, no. Not without getting [I]very[/I] lucky. A rifled slug will reliably kill a deer, which is roughly the size of a human, bucks being about 100 kg. An African elephant is 6000 kg(!), pushing towards two orders of magnitude larger. The real killer of the elephant herds in Africa was the AK-47 as it turns out emptying a few magazines into an elephant and then waiting for it to bleed out works pretty well despite the weakness of the individual rounds. If you want to drop an elephant with one shot, you need something [URL="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elephant_gun"]really big[/URL], and even then. But you're mixing in the way guns work in the real world with the way they would work in a game, which won't totally line up. I mean, neither do swords or any other damage type. Gun stats would be made to fit the rules. Presumably the DM exercises authority over what's in his or her game? [/QUOTE]
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