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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Gaiden" data-source="post: 922544" data-attributes="member: 103">Aside from the MoF PrC and epic feats, I am confused about why people think empowered buff spells are so great and all that powerful.Average 4th: +4 Max 4th: +7Average 6th: +5Max 6th: +9Average 8th: +6Max 8th: +11While those buffs are certainly nice, IME and IMC's I have never had a problem.  First off, not everyone takes empower spell.  Even if they do, they have to burn between 1 - 4 spells of the appropriate slot to gain the max benefit and even with high mental stats, it is tough to get large numbers of higher level spells.  So casting these empowered spells always comes at a cost.  Consider the difference between divine power and bull's strength or cat's grace and divine agility.  Consider Tensor's Transformation.These spells are dispellable, and their are items that make them virtually obsolete, unless of course you are willing to burn your eighth level slots until you finally roll max to get better than the 32000 gp item (relatively cheap in my opinion - esp. at that level)Moreover, the comparison between the items and teh spells serves as a good model for the spell.  The items are really cheap.I agree with Grog - the change is comletely unnecessary and if the only problem is empower than change the system to not allow it to function on these spells (which they are apparently doing anyway).Changing the spell to a minute duration COMPLETELY nerfs the spell.  Let's be realistic, no PC will ever waste a slot on a spell that must be used during combat to buff only a single individual as a regular tactic.  It would require a special circumstance and alot of planning.  Who is to say spells are not to be used ahead of time?  That is in fact a wizard's most powerful method of combat - surveillance with divination and then teleport in with delayed spells.Changing the spell to a minute duration unfortunately promotes the lets fight for 24 seconds or so and wait a full day (as clerics are usually the ones doing the buffing) to move to the next room - again barring special circumstances.  Afterall, it simply is the most tactically sound method of gaining ground (so long as you have a hiding place of course).Personally, I think the extend problem was more of an issue than empower.  It basically lets a character get a free set of spells for 1 or more days.  E.g. 9th level extended and empowered spell to last for more than 48 hours.  Next day, you get all the benefits of the spell and now have an available spell slot for it.  But again, there is a cost with extending the spell in this way and it only makes a difference beyond 9th level anyway at which point the minimum (the unempowered version) isn't really all that necessary anymore anyway, especially with the number of dispels possibly being tossed around.Finally, the reason why many spellcasters take the spell has nothing to do with any sort of reason even close to the H P or M spells.  Rather it is because almost every party operates with certain norms having the tanks and the spell slingers.  These are by no means the only options in D&D but they are by far the most common.  And it is that commonality that renders the buff spells a frequent choice but even still not an automatic one.</blockquote>

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