Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
White Dwarf Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Nest
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions, OSR, & D&D Variants
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
EN Publishing
Twitter
BlueSky
Facebook
Instagram
EN World
BlueSky
YouTube
Facebook
Twitter
Twitch
Podcast
Features
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
Million Dollar TTRPG Kickstarters
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions, OSR, & D&D Variants
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
Upgrade your account to a Community Supporter account and remove most of the site ads.
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
Should 2014 Half Elves and Half Orcs be added to the 2025 SRD?
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="EzekielRaiden" data-source="post: 9467077" data-attributes="member: 6790260"><p>The term could have all sorts of meanings. I wanted to know which specific one you were intending. My apologies for giving the impression that I was leading you on. That truly was not my intent, and I'm sorry for antagonizing you, regardless of my intent.</p><p></p><p>In response to this point, I point you back to what I said above about the commonalities between nearly all playable races. With the exception of <em>elves and dwarves</em>, whose experience of time would be dramatically different from a human's because they live so long, the vast majority of fantastical species in D&D would have life experiences perfectly cognizable to us. Dragonborn don't give live birth...but they still lay quite large eggs, which would be fairly similar. All of them need overall the same kinds of nutrients, just in varying proportions. They all have more or less the same range of auditory, touch, smell, and taste senses as humans, and vision only meaningfully differs because of darkvision (which, frankly, some folks make way more of than it really is, treating it as though it were "darkness literally never impedes anything" which is <em>emphatically</em> not true.)</p><p></p><p>Culturally? They make music and eat sweets and honor their dead. They wear clothing and keep pets and engage in courtship rituals and mourn their dead.</p><p></p><p>If the culture of, say, Vedic-period India and Renaissance Italy and Golden Age Islam and the Yucatec Maya are cognizable to you as relatable, understandable things, then there is absolutely no <em>requirement</em> that cultures where these species live would be so alien that you could not relate to them, not even in principle.</p><p></p><p>If a culture where elves predominate* is relatable to you, I do not understand how one where dragonborn predominate is <em>guaranteed</em> to be unrelatable.</p><p></p><p>*Phrased so because, in truth, few to no D&D-world-cultures would truly be mono-racial, and few to no D&D playable races would be mono-cultural. That is, you could have X-ish humans and X-ish dragonborn and X-ish tabaxi, and you could also have Y-ican humans and Z-lamander dragonborn and W-ian tabaxi--not all Xs are human, and not all humans are Xs.)</p><p></p><p></p><p>I don't understand what merit there is to what kinds of people are expected to read the books. People--whatever demographic--are expected to find these characters relatable and compelling. None of them are human. The books are quite popular and, while some critics derided Jacques (he passed away in 2011) for being a bit staid/basic with his plot structures, there has never been any serious criticism that his books are somehow impossible to relate to because nobody in them is human. Physiological differences in the various anthropomorphic animals actually do matter, too. Some animals (like wildcats) are <em>much</em> larger than the mice and voles and such; many badgers have effectively Barbarian rage; there are owls and snakes and all sorts of creatures with radically different capabilities compared to the relative simplicity of the mice/otters/hares/etc.</p><p></p><p>They go to church (well, they live in an abbey), they make flower cordials, they sing rousing songs and forge weapons and armor and covet valuable things. They are <em>like</em> us. But they are not us. The ways they are not like us sometimes matter. Often, they don't--because most of the things sapient bipedal binocular bilaterally-symmetrical beings would do are going to be relatively similar. They matter enough to be worth thinking about, even though other things matter more a fair amount of the time.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="EzekielRaiden, post: 9467077, member: 6790260"] The term could have all sorts of meanings. I wanted to know which specific one you were intending. My apologies for giving the impression that I was leading you on. That truly was not my intent, and I'm sorry for antagonizing you, regardless of my intent. In response to this point, I point you back to what I said above about the commonalities between nearly all playable races. With the exception of [I]elves and dwarves[/I], whose experience of time would be dramatically different from a human's because they live so long, the vast majority of fantastical species in D&D would have life experiences perfectly cognizable to us. Dragonborn don't give live birth...but they still lay quite large eggs, which would be fairly similar. All of them need overall the same kinds of nutrients, just in varying proportions. They all have more or less the same range of auditory, touch, smell, and taste senses as humans, and vision only meaningfully differs because of darkvision (which, frankly, some folks make way more of than it really is, treating it as though it were "darkness literally never impedes anything" which is [I]emphatically[/I] not true.) Culturally? They make music and eat sweets and honor their dead. They wear clothing and keep pets and engage in courtship rituals and mourn their dead. If the culture of, say, Vedic-period India and Renaissance Italy and Golden Age Islam and the Yucatec Maya are cognizable to you as relatable, understandable things, then there is absolutely no [I]requirement[/I] that cultures where these species live would be so alien that you could not relate to them, not even in principle. If a culture where elves predominate* is relatable to you, I do not understand how one where dragonborn predominate is [I]guaranteed[/I] to be unrelatable. *Phrased so because, in truth, few to no D&D-world-cultures would truly be mono-racial, and few to no D&D playable races would be mono-cultural. That is, you could have X-ish humans and X-ish dragonborn and X-ish tabaxi, and you could also have Y-ican humans and Z-lamander dragonborn and W-ian tabaxi--not all Xs are human, and not all humans are Xs.) I don't understand what merit there is to what kinds of people are expected to read the books. People--whatever demographic--are expected to find these characters relatable and compelling. None of them are human. The books are quite popular and, while some critics derided Jacques (he passed away in 2011) for being a bit staid/basic with his plot structures, there has never been any serious criticism that his books are somehow impossible to relate to because nobody in them is human. Physiological differences in the various anthropomorphic animals actually do matter, too. Some animals (like wildcats) are [I]much[/I] larger than the mice and voles and such; many badgers have effectively Barbarian rage; there are owls and snakes and all sorts of creatures with radically different capabilities compared to the relative simplicity of the mice/otters/hares/etc. They go to church (well, they live in an abbey), they make flower cordials, they sing rousing songs and forge weapons and armor and covet valuable things. They are [I]like[/I] us. But they are not us. The ways they are not like us sometimes matter. Often, they don't--because most of the things sapient bipedal binocular bilaterally-symmetrical beings would do are going to be relatively similar. They matter enough to be worth thinking about, even though other things matter more a fair amount of the time. [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
Should 2014 Half Elves and Half Orcs be added to the 2025 SRD?
Top