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Should 5e have more classes (Poll and Discussion)?
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<blockquote data-quote="Hatmatter" data-source="post: 8089257" data-attributes="member: 75077"><p>I wanted to pause for a moment and just celebrate how amazing you all are. I mean, you are some really, thoughtful, intelligent, creative people.</p><p></p><p>I have read every page of this post, and I totally want to play one of <a href="https://www.enworld.org/members/undrave.7015698/" target="_blank">Undrave</a>’s nine warlords. They look awesome! What an epic campaign…and if you added some war gaming elements in it, I can imagine an awesome (and true) <em>campaign</em> of epic battles, skirmishes, and military objectives being met and thwarted.</p><p></p><p>I also want to play in <a href="https://www.enworld.org/members/saelorn.6775031/" target="_blank">Saelorn</a>’s campaign and play his unique sorcerer-warlock class created by him that realizes his vision of a sorcerer-warlock where the mechanics fulfill the story background of the class. I love the variation in each D&D campaign and I love unique takes on classes, especially because it can enrich the collaborative storytelling at the table.</p><p></p><p>And, on that note of storytelling, I want to play D&D DMed by <a href="https://www.enworld.org/members/dnd4vr.6987520/" target="_blank">dnd4vr</a>, where the mini-game of character creation is de-emphasized in favor of drama. Dnd4vr has some excellent and creative ideas about subclasses not attached to specific classes…subclasses that are a little reminiscent of prestige classes. Even though dnd4vr seems a bit disgruntled at having to do it himself, I don’t feel <em>too</em> bad for dnd4vr, because, having created classes and homebrewed 2nd edition to no end and had a blast myself, I am certain that dnd4vr, would <em>love</em> creating something that is unique to that campaign…people tend to feel good about creating something new, so I think the <em>work</em> dnd4vr invested would make that D&D campaign special and one in which I would like to play, and – I suspect – it would give dnd4vr and all the players enriching story and character ideas as well…good D&D rules tend to fertilize story ideas in my experience.</p><p></p><p>And, if I played in <a href="https://www.enworld.org/members/minigiant.63508/" target="_blank">Minigiant</a>’s, campaign, I could create an awesome Professor Plum scholar. Heck, I might make a few different scholars from among Minigiant’s subclasses that he offered. I would have my magnifying glass and library card at hand…I would feel like Gandalf in the archives of Mina Tirith researching the most important hidden truth in the world.</p><p></p><p><a href="https://www.enworld.org/members/crimson-longinus.7025508/" target="_blank">Crimson Longinus</a>, in whose campaign there would be a few broad but flexible classes: can I play in one of your campaigns? I love <em>Adventures in Middle Earth</em> where there are only a few classes available and it is a relatively low-magic setting set in one of my favorite fantasy worlds (It was a dream of mine in the 1980s to see D&D for Middle Earth published with that degree of care, given that I loved both D&D and MERPS)…I think you would create a thoughtful world where choices greatly impacted the world. I want to play in your campaign!</p><p></p><p>And <a href="https://www.enworld.org/members/acereraktriple6.7023887/" target="_blank">AcererakTriple6</a>, your gish class is awesome. Can’t say I am a fan of the name, but I’d play that class! Heck, I like the eldritch knight (I hope that you don’t think less of me for saying that), and I would love to play a gish in a party that also included an eldritch knight, a hexblade warlock, and a bladesinger. But your thoughtfulness concerning the class you created is impressive.</p><p></p><p>I was so thankful to have met Gary Gygax back in 1993…he was deep into <em>Dangerous Journeys</em> back then. He <em>loved</em> playing with the mechanical stuff, and about the only time I heard him speak ill of another system’s mechanics was about Eric Wujick’s (I lived in the same town, Detroit, as Wujick and played a few games with him always as the GM) <em>Amber Diceless Roleplaying</em>…and Gygax’s disagreement was on strictly <em>theoretical</em> level. Wujick was <em>brilliant</em>, by the way (and a terrific guy..a really dynamo). And I don’t use that adjective lightly.</p><p></p><p>You are all embodying Gygax's dream of crunchy and narrative-driven gamers creating their own worlds and games to enrich our time on this planet. Well done! If any of you want to invite me to play in your games, and if I have the time, it would be an honor. Contact me through Enworld.</p><p></p><p>Speaking for myself, I would like to see 5th edition D&D stay as the final version of the game till the end of time. Not because it cannot be improved – Saelorn and Undrive and AcererakTriple6 and others dispel that – but because it has proven to be an effective game of coalescing the role-playing community. For every improvement, there is some subsequent error or mistake made and for every new edition, we see more splintering of the community, and more divisiveness. I think perfection is probably best pursued at each individual D&D table, and that Wizards managed to satisfy the most people possible back in 2014. They will <em>never</em> produce the perfect game for everyone. The increase of people reevaluating 4th edition and now using 4th edition to critique 5th edition is an interesting testimony to that. That process will never end. For every element one does not like in 5th edition, if there was a 6th edition that “fixed it,” someone would come along in a forum post five years after 6th edition’s release and criticize 6th edition for not retaining that element that was previously disliked by others.</p><p></p><p>If you are not bound to Adventurers League, which I realize has to deal with official product releases in a different way than home games, then each game can manifest the creativity and intelligence of its DM simply by the DM disallowing what are, after all, already designated as options throughout all published D&D material. As many have pointed out here, there is a great creative energy and power in limiting options in some areas as well as increasing them in others.</p><p></p><p>Thanks for enduring my little soapbox moment. I have appreciated each post here. I get exhausted reading the newspaper these days and I enjoy what you all have to write much better.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Hatmatter, post: 8089257, member: 75077"] I wanted to pause for a moment and just celebrate how amazing you all are. I mean, you are some really, thoughtful, intelligent, creative people. I have read every page of this post, and I totally want to play one of [URL='https://www.enworld.org/members/undrave.7015698/']Undrave[/URL]’s nine warlords. They look awesome! What an epic campaign…and if you added some war gaming elements in it, I can imagine an awesome (and true) [I]campaign[/I] of epic battles, skirmishes, and military objectives being met and thwarted. I also want to play in [URL='https://www.enworld.org/members/saelorn.6775031/']Saelorn[/URL]’s campaign and play his unique sorcerer-warlock class created by him that realizes his vision of a sorcerer-warlock where the mechanics fulfill the story background of the class. I love the variation in each D&D campaign and I love unique takes on classes, especially because it can enrich the collaborative storytelling at the table. And, on that note of storytelling, I want to play D&D DMed by [URL='https://www.enworld.org/members/dnd4vr.6987520/']dnd4vr[/URL], where the mini-game of character creation is de-emphasized in favor of drama. Dnd4vr has some excellent and creative ideas about subclasses not attached to specific classes…subclasses that are a little reminiscent of prestige classes. Even though dnd4vr seems a bit disgruntled at having to do it himself, I don’t feel [I]too[/I] bad for dnd4vr, because, having created classes and homebrewed 2nd edition to no end and had a blast myself, I am certain that dnd4vr, would [I]love[/I] creating something that is unique to that campaign…people tend to feel good about creating something new, so I think the [I]work[/I] dnd4vr invested would make that D&D campaign special and one in which I would like to play, and – I suspect – it would give dnd4vr and all the players enriching story and character ideas as well…good D&D rules tend to fertilize story ideas in my experience. And, if I played in [URL='https://www.enworld.org/members/minigiant.63508/']Minigiant[/URL]’s, campaign, I could create an awesome Professor Plum scholar. Heck, I might make a few different scholars from among Minigiant’s subclasses that he offered. I would have my magnifying glass and library card at hand…I would feel like Gandalf in the archives of Mina Tirith researching the most important hidden truth in the world. [URL='https://www.enworld.org/members/crimson-longinus.7025508/']Crimson Longinus[/URL], in whose campaign there would be a few broad but flexible classes: can I play in one of your campaigns? I love [I]Adventures in Middle Earth[/I] where there are only a few classes available and it is a relatively low-magic setting set in one of my favorite fantasy worlds (It was a dream of mine in the 1980s to see D&D for Middle Earth published with that degree of care, given that I loved both D&D and MERPS)…I think you would create a thoughtful world where choices greatly impacted the world. I want to play in your campaign! And [URL='https://www.enworld.org/members/acereraktriple6.7023887/']AcererakTriple6[/URL], your gish class is awesome. Can’t say I am a fan of the name, but I’d play that class! Heck, I like the eldritch knight (I hope that you don’t think less of me for saying that), and I would love to play a gish in a party that also included an eldritch knight, a hexblade warlock, and a bladesinger. But your thoughtfulness concerning the class you created is impressive. I was so thankful to have met Gary Gygax back in 1993…he was deep into [I]Dangerous Journeys[/I] back then. He [I]loved[/I] playing with the mechanical stuff, and about the only time I heard him speak ill of another system’s mechanics was about Eric Wujick’s (I lived in the same town, Detroit, as Wujick and played a few games with him always as the GM) [I]Amber Diceless Roleplaying[/I]…and Gygax’s disagreement was on strictly [I]theoretical[/I] level. Wujick was [I]brilliant[/I], by the way (and a terrific guy..a really dynamo). And I don’t use that adjective lightly. You are all embodying Gygax's dream of crunchy and narrative-driven gamers creating their own worlds and games to enrich our time on this planet. Well done! If any of you want to invite me to play in your games, and if I have the time, it would be an honor. Contact me through Enworld. Speaking for myself, I would like to see 5th edition D&D stay as the final version of the game till the end of time. Not because it cannot be improved – Saelorn and Undrive and AcererakTriple6 and others dispel that – but because it has proven to be an effective game of coalescing the role-playing community. For every improvement, there is some subsequent error or mistake made and for every new edition, we see more splintering of the community, and more divisiveness. I think perfection is probably best pursued at each individual D&D table, and that Wizards managed to satisfy the most people possible back in 2014. They will [I]never[/I] produce the perfect game for everyone. The increase of people reevaluating 4th edition and now using 4th edition to critique 5th edition is an interesting testimony to that. That process will never end. For every element one does not like in 5th edition, if there was a 6th edition that “fixed it,” someone would come along in a forum post five years after 6th edition’s release and criticize 6th edition for not retaining that element that was previously disliked by others. If you are not bound to Adventurers League, which I realize has to deal with official product releases in a different way than home games, then each game can manifest the creativity and intelligence of its DM simply by the DM disallowing what are, after all, already designated as options throughout all published D&D material. As many have pointed out here, there is a great creative energy and power in limiting options in some areas as well as increasing them in others. Thanks for enduring my little soapbox moment. I have appreciated each post here. I get exhausted reading the newspaper these days and I enjoy what you all have to write much better. [/QUOTE]
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