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<blockquote data-quote="Cap'n Kobold" data-source="post: 8089872" data-attributes="member: 6802951">That's fair. How would you do it?&nbsp;Subclasses are allowed to give extra skills and even change the focus of a class.&nbsp;Knowledge and Tool proficiencies to ability checks. Those are the rules for applying lore and tools to predictable worldly effects.&nbsp;I'm not sure what you think of science is what I think of science.Science is incremental and repeatable. Advanced nonmagical science in the D&amp;D worlds is what leads to advances like the metallurgy capable of creating rapiers and effective handcrossbows in a medieval setting. If your character has abilities based on having invented gunpowder for example, then gunpowder will become, and forever after be, part of the setting, because anyone can do it after it has been discovered.If your character invents a grapple-gun, or works out a herbal formula for PCP, everyone from there on can use it when they share their findings.&nbsp;A lot of those could be covered in the Artificer class. Their 'spells' are pretty explicitly fluffed as using devices or formulas that they have created.Yes, they are magical, but that is because they use magical principle in their design to perform effects that mundane devices could not. Nonmagical devices are called &quot;Equipment&quot; and are available in the PHB.&nbsp;Subclasses are allowed to change the focus of a class. It strikes me that a class that is very good at Lore and application of skills would need:A method of getting a bonus to those skills above simply being proficient in them.An ability that reduces the chance of the character not being good at those skills when they just get a low roll.Possibly at high level, the capability to take an important ability check that they failed and say; &quot;No. The character is at the peak of knowledge. He is successful in this check.&quot;Possibly some combat abilities demonstrating the character's tactical awareness and analysis and sense of timing.&nbsp;That's a good point. You could do it with a fighter, but you would need to put almost all the support for ability checks in the subclass, because the fighter class doesn't have those as the base class like the rogue does.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Cap'n Kobold, post: 8089872, member: 6802951"] That's fair. How would you do it? Subclasses are allowed to give extra skills and even change the focus of a class. Knowledge and Tool proficiencies to ability checks. Those are the rules for applying lore and tools to predictable worldly effects. I'm not sure what you think of science is what I think of science. Science is incremental and repeatable. Advanced nonmagical science in the D&D worlds is what leads to advances like the metallurgy capable of creating rapiers and effective handcrossbows in a medieval setting. If your character has abilities based on having invented gunpowder for example, then gunpowder will become, and forever after be, part of the setting, because anyone can do it after it has been discovered. If your character invents a grapple-gun, or works out a herbal formula for PCP, everyone from there on can use it when they share their findings. A lot of those could be covered in the Artificer class. Their 'spells' are pretty explicitly fluffed as using devices or formulas that they have created. Yes, they are magical, but that is because they use magical principle in their design to perform effects that mundane devices could not. Nonmagical devices are called "Equipment" and are available in the PHB. Subclasses are allowed to change the focus of a class. It strikes me that a class that is very good at Lore and application of skills would need: A method of getting a bonus to those skills above simply being proficient in them. An ability that reduces the chance of the character not being good at those skills when they just get a low roll. Possibly at high level, the capability to take an important ability check that they failed and say; "No. The character is at the peak of knowledge. He is successful in this check." Possibly some combat abilities demonstrating the character's tactical awareness and analysis and sense of timing. That's a good point. You could do it with a fighter, but you would need to put almost all the support for ability checks in the subclass, because the fighter class doesn't have those as the base class like the rogue does. [/QUOTE]

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