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General Tabletop Discussion
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Should 5e have save or die?
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<blockquote data-quote="Jeff Carlsen" data-source="post: 5779246" data-attributes="member: 61749"><p>So, the basic points are this:</p><p></p><p>1. Some things, traditionally and realistically, should kill you.</p><p></p><p>2. Nobody wants their character to be randomly killed off.</p><p></p><p>I think that both of these points are important, and that a baseline design would satisfy both.</p><p></p><p>Let's look at Medusa. If you look at her, you die. I think this is right and proper. At the same time, Medusa should never be hiding behind a random door in a dungeon. As a DM, if my players are going to face Medusa, they need to be notified of this beforehand.</p><p></p><p>There's a particular kind a tension in a fight where looking at the enemy means instant death. This is cool. This should be supported. But that's a set-piece battle. That's something that the players should be walking toward with dread. So, even if a single roll might result in a character death, and that will suck, it isn't unfair.</p><p></p><p>The same thing applies to Disintegrate and Finger of Death. So long as these abilities aren't sprung on players as a surprise, they have a place. It's like the assassin mentioned above. Slitting someone's throat kills them. A DM that sends an assassin to slit a PC's throat in the night is probably not doing the right thing (unless the PC knowingly did something that would cause this and then didn't prepare for it).</p><p></p><p>Most poisons and monster abilities shouldn't be save or die. They should have dramatic effects, certainly, but if it's going to be sprung on players, it shouldn't be unfair.</p><p></p><p>TLDR version: Save or Die is a useful tool, but must be applied properly by the DM and should never be random or unfair. Proper use of the few Save or Die effects that exist should be clearly discussed in the DM information.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Jeff Carlsen, post: 5779246, member: 61749"] So, the basic points are this: 1. Some things, traditionally and realistically, should kill you. 2. Nobody wants their character to be randomly killed off. I think that both of these points are important, and that a baseline design would satisfy both. Let's look at Medusa. If you look at her, you die. I think this is right and proper. At the same time, Medusa should never be hiding behind a random door in a dungeon. As a DM, if my players are going to face Medusa, they need to be notified of this beforehand. There's a particular kind a tension in a fight where looking at the enemy means instant death. This is cool. This should be supported. But that's a set-piece battle. That's something that the players should be walking toward with dread. So, even if a single roll might result in a character death, and that will suck, it isn't unfair. The same thing applies to Disintegrate and Finger of Death. So long as these abilities aren't sprung on players as a surprise, they have a place. It's like the assassin mentioned above. Slitting someone's throat kills them. A DM that sends an assassin to slit a PC's throat in the night is probably not doing the right thing (unless the PC knowingly did something that would cause this and then didn't prepare for it). Most poisons and monster abilities shouldn't be save or die. They should have dramatic effects, certainly, but if it's going to be sprung on players, it shouldn't be unfair. TLDR version: Save or Die is a useful tool, but must be applied properly by the DM and should never be random or unfair. Proper use of the few Save or Die effects that exist should be clearly discussed in the DM information. [/QUOTE]
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