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*Dungeons & Dragons
Should 5e have save or die?
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<blockquote data-quote="Aldarc" data-source="post: 5780097" data-attributes="member: 5142"><p>I am not rejecting anything. You are. Learning from D&D's past does not mean that WotC should ignore improvements made in 4E or pretend that everything about 4E was wrong or that WotC should basically just redesign everything to be D&D 3.75 to cater to your preferences. Where does D&D Next's design goals say that the game is being designed to appeal strictly to players of 1-3e? (Let me be clear, I do not play 4E, nor do I particularly care for Pathfinder and 3.5. After extended play of these systems, I think all of these systems have a number of weak points that do not entirely meet my expectations of a more simplified and flexible system. D&D Next, if the Legends & Lore articles and D&D Next design goals are any indication, has the potential of getting much closer to my preferences.) Do you honestly think that Save-or-Die is the only problem people had with 4E? Do you honestly think that if 3.5 was the same but did not have Save-or-Die that it would have lost as many people as 4E? Of course not. It's absurd to think that. So why make a barb that Save-or-Die is somehow mandatory for D&D Next as if it was responsible for 4E's failures? My goal is a much bigger fan base than 4E had as well, which means to keep to D&D Next's stated design goals: </p><p>D&D Next is bigger than strictly your preferences, as it is bigger than mine. </p><p>BryonD: No one likes being told that there is only one right way to play guitar, and that includes with Save-or-Die. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f609.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=";)" title="Wink ;)" data-smilie="2"data-shortname=";)" /> </p><p>Tell me how absolutism about Save-or-Die and my advocating for a lethality dials approach compares with these design goals? </p><p></p><p>This is the absolute language to which I object. This strikes me as just "true Scotsman," in which "no true Medusa would not instantly turn victims into stone and not have Save-or-Die mechanics." Why can't my Medusa not if I so deem it for my campaign? <em>Why are you telling people that thrash metal is the only correct way to play guitar?</em> Your language is antithetical to the stated design goals, and that is why I object to your absolute language, because I find it every bit as antithetical to D&D Next's design goals as the complete absence of Save-or-Die mechanics. It's exclusionary and not inclusionary.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Aldarc, post: 5780097, member: 5142"] I am not rejecting anything. You are. Learning from D&D's past does not mean that WotC should ignore improvements made in 4E or pretend that everything about 4E was wrong or that WotC should basically just redesign everything to be D&D 3.75 to cater to your preferences. Where does D&D Next's design goals say that the game is being designed to appeal strictly to players of 1-3e? (Let me be clear, I do not play 4E, nor do I particularly care for Pathfinder and 3.5. After extended play of these systems, I think all of these systems have a number of weak points that do not entirely meet my expectations of a more simplified and flexible system. D&D Next, if the Legends & Lore articles and D&D Next design goals are any indication, has the potential of getting much closer to my preferences.) Do you honestly think that Save-or-Die is the only problem people had with 4E? Do you honestly think that if 3.5 was the same but did not have Save-or-Die that it would have lost as many people as 4E? Of course not. It's absurd to think that. So why make a barb that Save-or-Die is somehow mandatory for D&D Next as if it was responsible for 4E's failures? My goal is a much bigger fan base than 4E had as well, which means to keep to D&D Next's stated design goals: D&D Next is bigger than strictly your preferences, as it is bigger than mine. BryonD: No one likes being told that there is only one right way to play guitar, and that includes with Save-or-Die. ;) Tell me how absolutism about Save-or-Die and my advocating for a lethality dials approach compares with these design goals? This is the absolute language to which I object. This strikes me as just "true Scotsman," in which "no true Medusa would not instantly turn victims into stone and not have Save-or-Die mechanics." Why can't my Medusa not if I so deem it for my campaign? [I]Why are you telling people that thrash metal is the only correct way to play guitar?[/I] Your language is antithetical to the stated design goals, and that is why I object to your absolute language, because I find it every bit as antithetical to D&D Next's design goals as the complete absence of Save-or-Die mechanics. It's exclusionary and not inclusionary. [/QUOTE]
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