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<blockquote data-quote="ezo" data-source="post: 9505015" data-attributes="member: 7037866">Correct.No, a &quot;regular dude&quot; would be +0, +0, +0, +0 at those levels.The fact you are including proficiency bonus (as you youself attribute later) is giving the &quot;regular due&quot; a bonus representing further training in that skill, etc.Ignoring the above point of your &quot;regular dude&quot; not really being regular.... Those DCs at the (corrected) bonuses you list above:Tier 1: +3 modifier vs. DC 10 needs 7 or better, so 70%Tier 2: +4 vs. DC 14 needs 10 or better, so 55%Tier 3: +6 vs. DC 18 needs 12 or better, so 45%Tier 4: +7 vs. DC 20 needs 13 or better, so 40%IMO 40-55% is hardly &quot;incompetent&quot; as you claim. I would say they are definitely competent in Tier 1, and even OK at that other tiers. Even at your numbers for tiers 3 and 4 the percentage only drops 5%, not a huge difference in likelihood of success.Most raw ability scores are +2 or less. Only the abilities a PC is expected to excel at tend to be above +2. Ability represents no formal or professional training--at best IMO any training attributed to ability is meant to represent the (casual) &quot;hobby&quot; level. That is why &quot;proficiency&quot; (as in actual formal training and/or experience, e.g. &quot;focus&quot;) begins at +2. Your &quot;hobby&quot; abilities will be at this level or lower typically. Ability scores above +2 represent a combination of informal training, natural talent, etc.Ok, while I love Leverage (I've seen every single episode), those are actually tier 3 and 4 types doing DC 20 &quot;hard&quot; things all the time...like the 90% my numbers above indicate. They do fail occasionally at that DC, and &quot;fail to make progress&quot; or &quot;succeed at a cost&quot; often at DC 25 or higher tasks as well. I mean, come on, if you've seen the show&nbsp; you know success at a cost is just about required at least 2-3 times per episode--the complications are what makes it fun. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile&nbsp; &nbsp; :)"&nbsp; data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" /></blockquote>

[QUOTE="ezo, post: 9505015, member: 7037866"] Correct. No, a "regular dude" would be +0, +0, +0, +0 at those levels. The fact you are including proficiency bonus (as you youself attribute later) is giving the "regular due" a bonus representing further training in that skill, etc. Ignoring the above point of your "regular dude" not really being regular.... Those DCs at the (corrected) bonuses you list above: Tier 1: +3 modifier vs. DC 10 needs 7 or better, so 70% Tier 2: +4 vs. DC 14 needs 10 or better, so 55% Tier 3: +6 vs. DC 18 needs 12 or better, so 45% Tier 4: +7 vs. DC 20 needs 13 or better, so 40% IMO 40-55% is hardly "incompetent" as you claim. I would say they are definitely competent in Tier 1, and even OK at that other tiers. Even at your numbers for tiers 3 and 4 the percentage only drops 5%, not a huge difference in likelihood of success. Most raw ability scores are +2 or less. Only the abilities a PC is expected to excel at tend to be above +2. Ability represents no formal or professional training--at best IMO any training attributed to ability is meant to represent the (casual) "hobby" level. That is why "proficiency" (as in actual formal training and/or experience, e.g. "focus") begins at +2. Your "hobby" abilities will be at this level or lower typically. Ability scores above +2 represent a combination of informal training, natural talent, etc. Ok, while I love Leverage (I've seen every single episode), those are actually tier 3 and 4 types doing DC 20 "hard" things all the time...like the 90% my numbers above indicate. They do fail occasionally at that DC, and "fail to make progress" or "succeed at a cost" often at DC 25 or higher tasks as well. I mean, come on, if you've seen the show you know success at a cost is just about required at least 2-3 times per episode--the complications are what makes it fun. :) [/QUOTE]

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