Reply to thread

Message: <blockquote data-quote="tetrasodium" data-source="post: 9506110" data-attributes="member: 93670">The SRD entry on taking 10/20 is a bit incomplete in ways that make the bolded bit seem close, but the hurdles taking 10 needed to clear that are not present for RT creates some of the reasons RT is a problem in their absence[spoiler="3.5 checks without rolls, 3.5 phb pg65"]Checks without RollsA skill check represents an attempt to accomplish some goal, usuallywhile under some sort of time pressure or distraction. Sometimes,though, a character can use a skill under more favorable conditionsand eliminate the luck factor.Taking 10: When your character is not being threatened or dis-tracted, you may choose to take 10. Instead of rolling 1d20 for theskill check, calculate your result as if you had rolled a 10. For manyroutine tasks, taking 10 makes them automatically successful. Dis-tractions or threats (such as combat) make it impossible for a character to take 10. In most cases, taking 10 is purely a safetymeasure —you know (or expect) that an average roll will succeedbut fear that a poor roll might fail, so you elect to settle for theaverage roll (a 10). Taking 10 is especially useful in situations wherea particularly high roll wouldn’t help (such as using Climb to ascenda knotted rope, or using Heal to give a wounded PC long-term care).For example, Krusk the barbarian has a Climb skill modifier of +6(4 ranks, +3 Strength modifier, –1 penalty for wearing studdedleather armor). The steep, rocky slope he’s climbing has a Climb DCof 10. With a little care, he can take 10 and succeed automatically.But partway up the slope, a goblin scout begins pelting him withsling stones. Krusk needs to make a Climb check to get up to thegoblin, and this time he can’t simply take 10. If his player rolls 4 orhigher on 1d20, he succeeds.Taking 20: When you have plenty of time (generally 2 minutes for a skill that can normally be checked in 1 round, one full-round action, or one standard action), you are faced with no threats or distractions, and the skill being attempted carries no penalties for failure, you can take 20. In other words, eventually you will get a 20on 1d20 if you roll enough times. Instead of rolling 1d20 for the skillcheck, just calculate your result as if you had rolled a 20. Taking 20means you are trying until you get it right, and it assumes that youfail many times before succeeding. Taking 20 takes twenty times aslong as making a single check would take. Since taking 20 assumesthat the character will fail many times before succeeding, if you didattempt to take 20 on a skill that carries penalties for failure (forinstance, a Disable Device check to disarm a trap), your characterwould automatically incur those penalties before he or she couldcomplete the task (in this case, the character would most likely setoff the trap). Common “take 20” skills include Escape Artist, OpenLock, and Search.For example, Krusk comes to a cliff face. He attempts to take 10,for a result of 16 (10 plus his +6 skill modifier), but the DC is 20, andthe DM tells him that he fails to make progress up the cliff. (Hischeck is at least high enough that he does not fall.) Krusk cannottake 20 because there is a penalty associated with failure (falling, inthis case). He can try over and over, and eventually he may succeed,but he might fall one or more times in the process. Later, Kruskfinds a cave in the cliff and searches it. The DM sees in the Searchskill description that each 5-foot-square area takes a full-roundaction to search, and she secretly assigns a DC of 15 to the attempt.She estimates that the floors, walls, and ceiling of the cave make upabout ten 5-foot squares, so she tells Krusk’s player that it takes 1minute (10 rounds) to search the whole cave. Krusk’s player gets aresult of 12 on 1d20, adds no skill ranks because Krusk doesn’t havethe Search skill, and adds –1 because that is Krusk’s Intelligencemodifier. His roll fails. Now the player declares that Krusk is goingto search the cavern high and low, taking as long as it takes. The DMtakes the original time of 1 minutes and multiplies it by 20, for 20minutes. That’s how long it takes for Krusk to search the whole cavein exacting detail. Now Krusk’s player treats his roll as if it were 20,for a result of 19. That’s good enough to beat the DC of 15, andKrusk finds an old, bronze key discarded under a loose rock.Ability Checks and Caster Level Checks: The normal take 10and take 20 rules apply for ability checks. Neither rule applies tocaster level checks (such as when casting dispel magic or attemptingto overcome spell resistance).[/spoiler]Those underlined italicized bits were an important limitation that shifted the decision  point for the party from if bob cares to do the thing he's guaranteed to succeed at over to how bob & the party can set the stage needed to just do the thing everyone knows bob can just do given the chance.Ironically that page also includes a section explaining why the extreme DCs existed and a section covering how a party interacted with them <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f600.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":D" title="Big grin    :D"  data-smilie="8"data-shortname=":D" />[spoiler="Practically impossible tasks"]Practically Impossible TasksSometimes you want to do something that seems practicallyimpossible. In general, a task considered practically impossible has aDC of 40, 60, or even higher (or it carries a modifier of +20 or moreto the DC).Practically impossible tasks are hard to delineate ahead of time.They’re the accomplishments that represent incredible, almostlogic-defying skill and luck. Picking a lock by giving it a single, swiftkick might entail a +20 modifier to the DC; swimming up a waterfallcould require a Swim check against DC 80; and balancing on afragile tree branch might have a DC of 90.The DM decides what is actually impossible and what is merelypractically impossible. Characters with very high skill modifiers arecapable of accomplishing incredible, almost unbelievable tasks, justas characters with very high combat bonuses are.[/spoiler][spoiler="combining skill attempts"]COMBINING SKILL ATTEMPTSWhen more than one character tries the same skill at the same timeand for the same purpose, their efforts may overlap. Individual EventsOften, several characters attempt some action and each succeeds orfails independently.For example, Krusk and each of his friends needs to climb a slopeif they’re all to get to the top. Regardless of Krusk’s roll, the othercharacters need successful checks, too. Every character makes a skillcheck. Aid AnotherYou can help another character achieve success on his or her skillcheck by making the same kind of skill check in a cooperative effort.If you roll a 10 or higher on your check, the character you are helping gets a +2 bonus to his or her check, as per the rule forfavorable conditions. (You can’t take 10 on a skill check to aidanother.) In many cases, a character’s help won’t be beneficial, oronly a limited number of characters can help at once. The DM limitscooperation as he or she sees fit for the given conditions.For instance, if Krusk has been badly wounded and is dying,Jozan can try a Heal check to keep him from losing more hit points.One other character can help Jozan. If the other character makes aHeal check against DC 10, then Jozan gets a +2 circumstance bonuson the Heal check he makes to help Krusk. The DM rules that twocharacters couldn’t help Jozan at the same time because a thirdperson would just get in the way.In cases where the skill restricts who can achieve certain results(such as with Disable Device, Search, and Survival), you can’t aidanother to grant a bonus to a task that your character couldn’tachieve alone. For instance, a character who doesn’t have thetrapfinding class feature can’t use Search to help a rogue find amagic trap, since the helper couldn’t attempt to find the magic trapon his own.[/spoiler]IoW proto-Skill challenges</blockquote>

Verification