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<blockquote data-quote="tetrasodium" data-source="post: 9526592" data-attributes="member: 93670">Sure there's an assumption but that cuts both ways.&nbsp; The tie shoes example didn't seem to specify a scenario context and I almost responded to it with one that shows how 5e's self obsoleting &amp; overly condensed skill system limits it's ability to be useful I didn't do that earlier because it seemed a bit too tangential until you made a point that amounts to shutting it down no matter the scenario context.If you fill in the scenario as the party going to visit (or invade/attack) some high society court event for whatever reason, then &quot;I want to make sure that I lace up our shoes so they match the latest courtly style&quot; instead of &quot;I dress up&quot; is an entirely reasonable thing to expect or call for a check on.&nbsp; Under 5e's mechanical framework it's pretty much guaranteed success and is forgotten or never considered because it's really too large of a penalty/bonus to matter as it's carried forward by the fiction. Back when you had a more fine grained and nuanced framework like DM's best friend you had all kinds of interesting options....&nbsp;Did Bob fail and do the laces in an out of date style that's going to secretly impose a -2 because it's used by some other faction/nation not particularly well liked?&nbsp; Did Bob succeed but manage to alienate himself from certain NPCs because he presents as trying too hard?&nbsp; Is that style going to be a problem in climbing a castle wall to the next floor&nbsp; or the scuffle with the guards that follows? All of those things are still technically possible with (dis)advantage and &quot;I dress up fancy&quot; but the quantum ogre being carried is too blunt and wields too large of a club to it looks arbitrary and starts fights over if it should matter because the bonus/penalty is so large</blockquote>

[QUOTE="tetrasodium, post: 9526592, member: 93670"] Sure there's an assumption but that cuts both ways. The tie shoes example didn't seem to specify a scenario context and I almost responded to it with one that shows how 5e's self obsoleting & overly condensed skill system limits it's ability to be useful I didn't do that earlier because it seemed a bit too tangential until you made a point that amounts to shutting it down no matter the scenario context. If you fill in the scenario as the party going to visit (or invade/attack) some high society court event for whatever reason, then "I want to make sure that I lace up our shoes so they match the latest courtly style" instead of "I dress up" is an entirely reasonable thing to expect or call for a check on. Under 5e's mechanical framework it's pretty much guaranteed success and is forgotten or never considered because it's really too large of a penalty/bonus to matter as it's carried forward by the fiction. Back when you had a more fine grained and nuanced framework like DM's best friend you had all kinds of interesting options.... Did Bob fail and do the laces in an out of date style that's going to secretly impose a -2 because it's used by some other faction/nation not particularly well liked? Did Bob succeed but manage to alienate himself from certain NPCs because he presents as trying too hard? Is that style going to be a problem in climbing a castle wall to the next floor or the scuffle with the guards that follows? All of those things are still technically possible with (dis)advantage and "I dress up fancy" but the quantum ogre being carried is too blunt and wields too large of a club to it looks arbitrary and starts fights over if it should matter because the bonus/penalty is so large [/QUOTE]

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