Reply to thread

Message: <blockquote data-quote="tetrasodium" data-source="post: 9526861" data-attributes="member: 93670">That makes sense. It was composed late at night from bed and is a lot more disorganized than I meant it to be <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f600.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":D" title="Big grin    :D"  data-smilie="8"data-shortname=":D" />. my point involved a comparison between the previously discussed self-obsoleting skill system of 5e, which has been discussed in previous posts, and one version of <a href="https://www.enworld.org/threads/should-bounded-accuracy-apply-to-skill-checks-thoughts-on-an-old-alexandrian-article.707833/post-9505232" target="_blank">what existed before 5e</a>.  It somewhat depended on the linked text of the subsystem being known[spoiler="this text"]A favorable circumstance gives a character a +2 bonus on a skillcheck (or a –2 modifier to the DC) and an unfavorable one gives a–2 penalty on the skill check (or a +2 modifier to the DC). Takespecial note of this rule, for it may be the only one you’ll need.Mialee runs down a dungeon corridor, running from abeholder. Around the corner ahead wait two ogres. Does Mialeehear the ogres getting ready to make their ambush? The DM callsfor a Listen check and rules that her running from the beholdermakes it less likely that she’s listening carefully: –2 penalty on thecheck. But one of the ogres is readying a portcullis trap, and thecranking winch of the device makes a lot of noise: –2 modifier tothe DC. Also, Mialee has heard from another adventurer that theogres in this dungeon like to ambush adventurers: +2 bonus onthe check. Her ears are still ringing from the shout spell that shecast at the beholder: –2 penalty on the check. The dungeon isalready noisy because of the sound of the roaring dragon on thelevel below: +2 modifier to the DC.You can add modifiers endlessly (doing so is not really a goodthing, since it slows down play), but the point is, other than thePC’s Listen check modifier, the only numbers that the DM and theplayer need to remember when calculating all the situationalmodifiers are +2 and –2. Multiple conditions add up to give thecheck a total modifier and the DC a final value.Going beyond the Rule: It’s certainly acceptable to modifythis rule. For extremely favorable or unfavorable circumstances,you can use modifiers greater than +2 and less than –2. Forexample, you can decide that a task is practically impossible andmodify the roll or the DC by 20. Feel free to modify these numbersas you see fit, using modifiers from 2 to 20.[/spoiler] Going to extend on [USER=6790260]@EzekielRaiden[/USER]'s point about other systems by showing that 3.5 had degrees of success and degrees of failure before I get into this[spoiler="on dmg pg32"][ATTACH=full]388370[/ATTACH][/spoiler]I think that you might be working under the idea that degrees of success require anything & everything to have a roll, and that only rolled checks hold significance later on, but that's just not accurate... 3.5PHB pg65 has a section for "checks without rolls," and I wouldn't be surprised if some 4e book mentioned something similar. In both of those past versions, we had a rules subsystems that enabled almost anything to matter a little (or a great deal).  That included elements that were initially introduced as seemingly inconsequential fluff at the time & past actions that were too trivial to require a check at the time. However, in 5e, we really only have (dis)advantage, which comes with a massive all-or-nothing bonus or penalty too big for casual details & trivial checks that needed no roll to matter. On top of all that, the skill system tends to self-obsolete after a few levels & once that happens we wind up with any given possible check effectively being a matter of if the GM will allow the player to accept their guaranteed success or if the player needs to find an acceptable loophole in the block by fiat.Degrees of success and Degrees of failure are highly adaptable without necessitating a roll for every little thing, but the system itself provide a solid framework for it to work effectively. By dropping the ball on that framework in so many ways , 5e itself forces rolls that on things that previously would not required anything in the past.</blockquote>

Verification