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Message: <blockquote data-quote="S'mon" data-source="post: 5737513" data-attributes="member: 463">That's true in 3e, but not in 4e.  In 4e a 30th level CHA 10 PC is rolling at +15 on his Diplomacy checks - better than a maxed-out 1st level Bard, who tops out around +12.  In 3e the PC is still rolling at +0.(@Husssar) Ergo, does 'playing the game in front of you' mean that the 4e player must play his PC as increasingly persuasive as he levels up, while the 3e player must play him as unpersuasive at all levels?  Or do you ignore the actual modifier and just focus on the raw stat + any skill training?My approach in 1e-3e was to use the raw stats as largely definional of the PC, but that doesn't work in 4e.   4e raw stats are so abstracted that I basically ignore them and only treat the actual die mods as meaningful.  I no longer see them as definitional of anything in-universe.Eg in 1e-3e I'd cap a female PC of normal physique at STR 16, because the STR stat defined your strength.  I find in 4e the stats are basically meaningless - if you want to be a good Fighter you need STR 18-20; as far as I'm concerned you can describe that combat effectiveness however you want.  Maybe you're really athletic.  Maybe a goddess blessed you to be teh ultimat waryer.  Likewise the other stats.</blockquote>