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Message: <blockquote data-quote="payn" data-source="post: 8769140" data-attributes="member: 90374">Gonna stroll down memory lane on this one. I really miss 3E/PF1 Class/ability score association. Between multiclass, prestige class, archetypes, and especially feats you had a truly flexible system. I could make any number of Rangers and they felt different mechanically from each other. The big issue was the gonzo no limit ability score mods in the game. The math got wonky and the gulf between optimal and suboptimal was huge. You ended up with a situation where single attribute dependent (SAD) classes had a distinct advantage over multiple attribute dependent (MAD) classes. The modern solution seems to be make every class SAD. Get rid of prestige classes, severely limit archetypes, and keep a tight lid on multi-classing. The result is better balance and a smaller gulf between optimal and suboptimal. However, it has a very homogeneous feel in chargen and play at the table. For example, sometimes a defense maybe "use strength or use wisdom, use charisma or use constitution". The tight math basically comes out in the wash. At this point you might as well divorce attributes from defense/offense and just give class charts a progression. For example, the wizard starts with defense of 1,2,3 and the fighter starts with defense 3,2,1. The stats are going to be the same for everyone, so there is really no point in having them. Now, 5E tried to bring back a need for every stat, but clearly that didn't pan out well. Some are very important and others can be avoided at no penalty. Sort of a split between the former gonzo stats and the tight stats. Its looser, so I like it, but still feel a real need is there for differentiation between characters and especially class. My solution would be to look at the 3E/PF1 Ranger design. The class has a combat selection feature, exploration features, and social features. The three pillars represent possibilities to engage in multiple stats and add more variety. Will we see an expansion for 1D&D? I cant say it seems like something folks wanted during NEXT, but surveys and 5E success seems to suggest its not likely to happen.</blockquote>

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