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Message: <blockquote data-quote="dave2008" data-source="post: 8026272" data-attributes="member: 83242">Not an issue for me as I don't use CR.  I don't have a problem making challenging encounters at 15th level or when we played at 20th level. But I don't have extensive experience at high levels.The only issue on the player side, IMO, is the non-proficient saves.  And that is easy to solve with an "epic" PC rule:  At 21st level and above players add half their proficiency bonus to all saving throws, or something similar.PS: I've already stated I don't want them too or expect them too publish epic levels.Sure, that is always an issue with epic play - what do you fight.  There are many ways to handle it that would have to be addressed in any "Epic Level Handbook," but Mythic Monsters from Theros are a good template to make existing monsters more challenging.  I've even started a thread for that (check out Mythic Tiamat): <a href="https://www.enworld.org/threads/5e-mythic-monster-updates.672508/post-8004360" target="_blank">5e Mythic Monster Updates</a> As I stated above, I don't see WotC doing an epic guide.  However, if one plays epic games the assumption should be they are going to be a bit more difficult to DM than standard games.  That should just be expected IMO.  Additionally, I do think printing swarms and hordes would be a good option, it is what I plan to do.  I've already made a decent template:  <a href="https://www.enworld.org/threads/5e-hardcore-monster-manual.519681/post-7009754" target="_blank">5e Hardcore Monster Manual: Fiends</a> , check out the Vargouille Swarm (CR 20), Imp Swarm (CR 21), and Lemure Horde (CR 9) for the concept. It would be fairly easy to make a mob of giants or similar.</blockquote>

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