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<blockquote data-quote="Sunseeker" data-source="post: 7263651">Does it?&nbsp; I mean, it's level 1.&nbsp; It's not terribly complicated.&nbsp; But feats are already optional, with their replacement being ASIs.&nbsp; I mean...what else is there?&nbsp; Class features?&nbsp; Isn't that just more feats?&nbsp; If the end result is dead levels, those levels should simply be removed from the game.&nbsp; I mean I guess there are extremes on both ends, but I suspect the vast majority (I'd wager 80%) can't enjoy a good system without a good story, and likewise can't enjoy a good story without a good system.&nbsp; But beyond that, even without &quot;levels&quot; games naturally increase in stakes over time, I mean you don't just save kittens from trees all day.&nbsp; It escalates over time.&nbsp; How quickly and where it escalates to it up to the DM (and to some degree the players).&nbsp; It's one of the reasons I don't use XP.&nbsp; it's too easy to lose control of the game too quickly.I want a solid system.&nbsp; I don't want to have to solve complex equations to make an attack and I want that simple math to work (it's why I love 4E, it's both simple AND stable).&nbsp; But I have no interest in just punching numbers into a chart (during game time, I freely admit I love to crunch numbers at home).&nbsp; I want to be engaged in an interesting and unique story.Eh, I guess we'll have to disagree on that.&nbsp; I think games can only go so far with &quot;open-ended&quot; stories.&nbsp; Good stories should have a beginning, a middle and an end.&nbsp; Your campaign world may contain many campaigns and there should be things to do between the campaigns, but finality is good in a game and in a story.As for being &quot;higher than the system was designed to handle&quot; that's always been a peeve of mine.&nbsp; If the levels are in the PHB, the game should be able to handle them.&nbsp; Outside of that, it's up to the DM to manage instability.&nbsp; But if the PHB comes with levels 1-20, the game should be able to handle 1-20.&nbsp; If it can't, then the game doesn't actually include levels 1-20.&nbsp; It's false advertising.&nbsp; Like saying your car can go 0-120, but if you ever drive 120, the wheels fall off.&nbsp; The car can't actually do 120 then.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Sunseeker, post: 7263651"] Does it? I mean, it's level 1. It's not terribly complicated. But feats are already optional, with their replacement being ASIs. I mean...what else is there? Class [B]feat[/B]ures? Isn't that just more feats? If the end result is dead levels, those levels should simply be removed from the game. I mean I guess there are extremes on both ends, but I suspect the vast majority (I'd wager 80%) can't enjoy a good system without a good story, and likewise can't enjoy a good story without a good system. But beyond that, even without "levels" games naturally increase in stakes over time, I mean you don't just save kittens from trees all day. It escalates over time. How quickly and where it escalates to it up to the DM (and to some degree the players). It's one of the reasons I don't use XP. it's too easy to lose control of the game too quickly. I want a solid system. I don't want to have to solve complex equations to make an attack and I want that simple math to [I]work[/I] (it's why I love 4E, it's both simple AND stable). But I have no interest in just punching numbers into a chart (during game time, I freely admit I love to crunch numbers at home). I want to be engaged in an interesting and unique story. Eh, I guess we'll have to disagree on that. I think games can only go so far with "open-ended" stories. Good stories should have a beginning, a middle and an end. Your campaign world may contain many campaigns and there should be things to do between the campaigns, but finality is good in a game and in a story. As for being "higher than the system was designed to handle" that's always been a peeve of mine. If the levels are in the PHB, the game should be able to handle them. Outside of that, it's up to the DM to manage instability. But if the PHB comes with levels 1-20, the game should be able to handle 1-20. If it can't, then the game doesn't [I]actually[/I] include levels 1-20. It's false advertising. Like saying your car can go 0-120, but if you ever drive 120, the wheels fall off. The car can't actually do 120 then. [/QUOTE]

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