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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Neonchameleon" data-source="post: 5658477" data-attributes="member: 87792">One of these days I'll be able to give pmerton experience points again...  Alternatively they could have turned pre-4e D&D back into the skirmish minatures game it was hacked out of and produced 4e as an RPG from the ground up. Which is almost what they did - except that separating DDM from D&D rules too much would be a bad plan.  And they would have lost most of the indy crossover market they picked up (like pmerton or myself). The market that finds 4e both incredibly evocative and the only edition of D&D ever that does anything approaching a good job of playing the way sword and sorcery fiction reads. The market that likes the ease of DMing and the flexibility that going for a narrative rather than sim game and building in balance from the ground up grants. And that likes the lack of crippling problems in the worldbuilding that e.g. Lyres of Building or half the spell lists create.  You're just suggesting that it would have been better to release it as a minis game and not as an RPG. Right.  I'm afraid that that flat out demonstrates ignorance of the Indy game market. Even early mainstream games like GURPS had attempts to tie the RP to the character mechanics with systems such as mental disadvantages - and White Wolf had things like its humanity system. And popular Indy games such as Spirit of the Century, Dogs in the Vineyard, and Dread (to take three I know personally) tie the mechanics to the roleplaying at least as much as they do to the simulation of the world.  90s White Wolf players called. They want their attacks on an extension to a hack of a tabletop skirmish wargame back. Those that aren't crippling themselves laughing seeing those who RP using a system that is ultimately based on skirmish wargame rules attack a game for being designed supposedly with RP as an afterthought. Edit: [MENTION=59096]thecasualoblivion[/MENTION], it's not the "4e isn't D&D" meme.  It's the "4e isn't an RPG" meme.  Or "Hur hur.  4e is WoW" meme.  I don't argue with people who say it's not D&D - I have a lot of sympathy with that view.</blockquote>

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