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Message: <blockquote data-quote="pemerton" data-source="post: 5658531" data-attributes="member: 42582">I'm confused  - you say that 4e as a minis game would have "drawn in more players who enjoy less of the RPG side of gaming", and you think this is not saying that 3.5 is a better RPG than 4th. I don't get that.It's better for the RPG I want to play. It may not be better for you. I'm pretty confident it's not better for BryonD. There are different playstyles out there. 4e suits some of them. (And I'm not talking about the "tactical skirmish" playstyle. Like Neonchameleon says, I'm talking about non-simulationist RPGing, which is supported by 4e's metagame mechanics in action resolution, and it's support for metagaming in encounter design.)Not everyone agrees with this. I think that mechanics have a big influence on RPing. A simple example: in Runequest a character has separate attack and parry skills - if another character hits your character in melee, you roll you parry skill to block the blow. In Rolemaster, attack and parry come from the same bonus pool, so each round in melee you get to choose how much your PC favours attack over defence, or vice versa. The Rolemaster mechanic opens up the door to playing one's PC as reckless, cautious etc - a mechanical decision that matters to RP.(This example is also enough to refute the suggestion that combat is at odds with RP. But there are plenty of other examples, including The Riddle of Steel and Burning Wheel, that are available if required.)4e has a lot of these sorts of mechanics. They're what distinguish it's approach to PC build from other editions of D&D and other mainstream fantasy RPGs.I'm assuming that you're not actually asserting, yourself, that it is a fact that 4e is designed like an MMO video game and is designed with RP as an afterthought. Also, I'm not saying that 4e is a better game than 3E/PF per se. I'm saying that it's better for the sort of game I want to run.As for how that sort of game works, check out any number of recent threads: "In defence of the theory of dissociated mechanics", "Is D&D about combat", "5e announcement cancelled", "Could WotC please everyone", "5e toolkit", and probably others I can't remember.</blockquote>

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