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Message: <blockquote data-quote="ECMO3" data-source="post: 9510939" data-attributes="member: 7030563">IT is not Cleave though.  If you are asking if Green Flame Blade does more damage than Cleave, the answer is yes in most cases it does, a lot more in fact, when you consider chance to hit on the order of twice as much damage in tier 2 and more than that at higher levels.  But if you are a caster and you want to use this and Cleave you need a mastery.Eldritch Knight does not give up anything in terms of Cantrips.  They get both Green Flame Blade and Cleave and their Cantrip scales the same as everyone else.  They are not giving up anything in this example.No because martials get spells too.   If we had a clean division where casters got spells and martials didn't this might be relevant.The idea that martials as a group do not cast spells is just untrue.  There are some that don't cast spells, but those are a distinct minority and they include many Monks that don't get weapon masteries either.Martials get a lot of things they can do that are more powerful than weapon masteries and in 2024 most of them have some pretty powerful class abilities too.I am suggesting casters and Monks get one weapon mastery, not that they get something like Elusive.It "can" but you really have to sell out on that role exclusively.  If that is what you are purposely building your character to do it should be good.On the flip side a Ranger, Paladin or Figther-Eldritch Knight can be a better Gish than such a Warlock would be.I never said they balance the classes out, I said they get effects that are comparable to or better than 9th level spells, and they do.Indomitable(3) is better than Foresight in play.   At this level a +17 on 3 saving throws (higher at higher levels) is better than advantage on D20 rolls for 8 hours.  This is especially true when without Resilient or Mage Slayer most fighters will auto fail Wisdom saves at this level and other lower level spells offer advantage and disadvantage for specific fights.The reason it is better is advantage and disadvantage have limited effectiveness at this level because the target rolls are usually either very easy or very difficult.Slippery Mind is also comparable to Foresight  and Disciplined Survivor is better than Foresight and players get these earlier than casters get 9th level spells.</blockquote>

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