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<blockquote data-quote="ECMO3" data-source="post: 9512086" data-attributes="member: 7030563">Oh they can.&nbsp; Just not with a cantrip, even when using a weapon with that Cantrip.I may have stated that, but I did not argue that as my position has always been that all martials should get some spell casting abilities as part of their class.Rangers and Paladins have the most unique spell lists in the game.Agreed, but I hardly think this is a reason to deny giving casters and monks mastery.People always want to make threads like this about what class has more than what other class and that is just not a consideration that I think is relevant to the question.I play a lot of high level games, all the way to level 20.&nbsp; Foresight is great, but it is not as good as +20 on 3 saves a day. In high level games using 2014 rules, Wisdom save proficiency was pretty much mandatory on a Fighter past level 15 or so if you wanted to be effective.&nbsp; If you did not have Wisdom save proficiency you usually spent most fights, frightened, incapacitated or worse helping the bad guys.&nbsp; The new indomitable has more or less solved that problem, freeing up another feat.Also I think you have the underlined backwards.&nbsp; Foresight lasts 8 hours and it is very useful in general, affecting dozens of rolls, maybe even hundreds at some tables, however it is often not needed for many of those rolls, for many of them the ramifications of failing are not that bad and at the level you get it, it is not effective most of the time when needed, because at that level the DC is so high that even with advantage you usually (sometimes always) fail.&nbsp; There is no save in the game that is going to fail very often with a +20.In the 2024 rules Indomitable is much more powerful at 17th level than it is at 9th level.I don't think thye should have the same, I just think one mastery would be cool.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="ECMO3, post: 9512086, member: 7030563"] Oh they can. Just not with a cantrip, even when using a weapon with that Cantrip. I may have stated that, but I did not argue that as my position has always been that all martials should get some spell casting abilities as part of their class. Rangers and Paladins have the most unique spell lists in the game. Agreed, but I hardly think this is a reason to deny giving casters and monks mastery. People always want to make threads like this about what class has more than what other class and that is just not a consideration that I think is relevant to the question. I play a lot of high level games, all the way to level 20. Foresight is great, but it is not as good as +20 on 3 saves a day. In high level games using 2014 rules, Wisdom save proficiency was pretty much mandatory on a Fighter past level 15 or so if you wanted to be effective. If you did not have Wisdom save proficiency you usually spent most fights, frightened, incapacitated or worse helping the bad guys. The new indomitable has more or less solved that problem, freeing up another feat. Also I think you have the underlined backwards. Foresight lasts 8 hours and it is very useful [U]in general[/U], affecting dozens of rolls, maybe even hundreds at some tables, however it is often not [U]needed[/U] for many of those rolls, for many of them the ramifications of failing are not that bad and at the level you get it, it is not effective most of the time when [U]needed[/U], because at that level the DC is so high that even with advantage you usually (sometimes always) fail. There is no save in the game that is going to fail very often with a +20. In the 2024 rules Indomitable is much more powerful at 17th level than it is at 9th level. I don't think thye should have the same, I just think one mastery would be cool. [/QUOTE]

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