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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Mr Fixit" data-source="post: 6391592" data-attributes="member: 6779654">Yes, I mean spells like Hunter's Mark and Swift Quiver. He gets only 2 of the latter per day at 20th level.I'm the first to admit that my math prowess is laughable, but how did you come by those numbers? Using Colossus Slayer and Hunter's Mark a ranger does around 150 damage over 5 rounds not 208. Did I miss something? And that's using an expendable (Hunter's Mark) and hoping his concentration won't get broken. How does that compare with fighter's flat 200 damage over 5 rounds without using any expendables? Factor in at least a couple Superiority Dice and maybe even an Action Surge, and he's well over 250 as well as, I dunno, knocking guys prone or incurring disadvantage or something.Not entirely true. Swift Quiver is concentration too, so he can't use it in tandem with HM. SQ would give the ranger around 210 damage over 5 rounds, just a little bit more than the fighter. And note that this option includes casting a 5th level spell, of which a ranger has only two per day. In this experiment, let's then allow the fighter to use his Action Surge as well (he also gets two of those, but they refresh after a short, not a long rest). Such a fighter would then dish out 240 damage, or 280 with both AS. And that's still not taking into account a single SD which would push him over 300. That's not "narrowly beating", that's a huge advantage.Well, a bunch of those spell slots will go to HMs, SQs and the like, right? I mean, you did include them in your math. I'm not denying ranger has extra spells and utilities, but then again I didn't mention fighter's stuff as well: 2 more feats (or score boosts), other SD effects which are quite beneficial, etc. Look, I'm not denying that a ranger has a role to play, but I simply think he's neither here nor there. He's much, much, weaker in combat at higher levels than either fighter or paladin, and his utilities aren't all that great. Helpful, certainly, but nothing to write home about. And again, a rogue that is a better survivalist and tracker than a ranger? How's that for a character concept?</blockquote>

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