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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Dausuul" data-source="post: 7615182" data-attributes="member: 58197">It depends on what you want out of your game. I know folks who swear by 4E and folks who will never touch it, and neither of them are wrong. It's just a matter of preferences.Strong points of 4E:<ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">The best class balance of any edition, by far.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Ideal for "set-piece" battles where the PCs face a planned encounter, on a battlefield with varied terrain, using a battlemat and minis. These battles can be very dynamic and tactically engaging. 4E is a wargamer's happy place.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Because everyone has the same number of at-will, encounter, and daily powers, the "5-minute workday" is less of an issue. You don't run into the scenario where the spellcasters have shot their wad and want to rest while the warriors are ready to keep going. And since daily powers are limited, it's a lot easier to carry on over the long haul.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">"Minions," simplified 1-hp monsters that can be used in large quantities, make it possible to easily run large fights that would bog down in other editions. I was sad that these went away in 5E.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Careful thought is given to how each class will contribute in combat. It is possible to make a 4E character who sucks in combat, but you have to go out of your way to do it.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Plenty of love for non-magical classes. 4E was the first edition to make fighters really interesting to me. Everyone has plenty of toys to play with.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Nifty new cosmology with some very neat ideas.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Much harder to "break the game" than in other editions. Abilities like flight and long-range teleportation are tightly controlled, which makes the DM's life a lot easier.</li> </ul>Weak points of 4E:<ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Most editions try to make the mechanics seem realistic at a casual glance, even if they don't hold up to scrutiny. 4E makes no attempt whatever to do this. Examples include attacks that deal damage even when you miss; instantaneous healing without benefit of magic; thrown daggers that hit everything in a 15-foot square; et cetera. Very jarring when trying to narrate.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Game manuals are extremely dry and technical. They do little to inspire the reader with ideas and excitement to play the game. Classes can feel very "samey" due to using identical power structures and advancement paths.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Non-combat aspects of the game are given short shrift. Monster entries especially are laser-focused on combat, with no attention to any non-combat abilities they might have.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Skill challenges are a nice idea, but not nearly fleshed out enough. I have had too many DMs announce "Skill challenge!" and proceed to have everybody roll a lot of dice with little or no narration--deadly dull. They can be done well, but it takes a lot of work and the rules give no hint that you need to do it.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Traditional D&D cosmology thrown out the window, along with decades of accumulated lore.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Combats using the early monster books can be "grindy" due to monsters having too many hit points and not dealing enough damage. Later monster books addressed this.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Equipment prices are weird and insane, following the MMO model where prices scale into the millions as you reach higher levels. They had to invent a new currency, the astral diamond, as a 10,000 gold piece "coin."</li> </ul>I played 4E throughout the edition and enjoyed it, but the shortcomings did wear on me as it went on. My group and I switched to 5E as soon as the playtest started and none of us is interested in going back. However, you might find that it really speaks to you, in which case, find a group (if you can) and get playing!</blockquote>

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