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General Tabletop Discussion
D&D Older Editions
Should I play 4e?
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<blockquote data-quote="CapnZapp" data-source="post: 7620808" data-attributes="member: 12731"><p>Not sure where you're going with this.</p><p></p><p>I mean, the absolute priority is to avoid Boring, right?</p><p></p><p>If the only way to make a fight sufficiently challenging to avoid Boring is to make it take a long time, then your core game is too involved.</p><p></p><p>I believe that is the fundamental flaw of 4E.</p><p></p><p>I think that shows why there is a limit to the lengths a game should and can go to avoid anti-climactic and/or Rocket Tag.</p><p></p><p>AD&D didn't even try. 3E didn't go far enough. 4E went (way) too far. 5E goes further than 3E but still stops well short of where the line is drawn, at least for our group.</p><p></p><p>But this still leaves 4E design off the hook. What I really think is that 4E is way too lumbering and cumbersome any way you look at it.</p><p></p><p>Just compare to the absolutely brilliant Gloomhaven to see how you can do a complex battlemat combat game that still plays quickly, elegantly and with a minimum of fuss.</p><p></p><p>My point here is that if you coupled GH combat to a full ttrpg experience, I can easily see you having the cake while still eating it: fun, involved, combat action difficult enough to be exciting AND enough time for story, drama, character choices.</p><p></p><p>In short, yes 4E has been much discussed. But seldom has its fundamentally overwrought design complexity been questioned.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="CapnZapp, post: 7620808, member: 12731"] Not sure where you're going with this. I mean, the absolute priority is to avoid Boring, right? If the only way to make a fight sufficiently challenging to avoid Boring is to make it take a long time, then your core game is too involved. I believe that is the fundamental flaw of 4E. I think that shows why there is a limit to the lengths a game should and can go to avoid anti-climactic and/or Rocket Tag. AD&D didn't even try. 3E didn't go far enough. 4E went (way) too far. 5E goes further than 3E but still stops well short of where the line is drawn, at least for our group. But this still leaves 4E design off the hook. What I really think is that 4E is way too lumbering and cumbersome any way you look at it. Just compare to the absolutely brilliant Gloomhaven to see how you can do a complex battlemat combat game that still plays quickly, elegantly and with a minimum of fuss. My point here is that if you coupled GH combat to a full ttrpg experience, I can easily see you having the cake while still eating it: fun, involved, combat action difficult enough to be exciting AND enough time for story, drama, character choices. In short, yes 4E has been much discussed. But seldom has its fundamentally overwrought design complexity been questioned. [/QUOTE]
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Should I play 4e?
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