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Should Insight be able to determine if an NPC is lying?
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<blockquote data-quote="pemerton" data-source="post: 7590907" data-attributes="member: 42582"><p>Depending on context, I wouldn't necessarily use that as the consequence of a failed Insight check that was used to resolve an attempt to get a "read" on an NPC.</p><p></p><p>There are some contexts (table mood, player mood, <em>which</em> player, what RPG are we playing, what's the nature of this campaign, etc) in which it can be fun to invite a player to play his/her PC against player knowledge. The Dying Earth RPG is built on this premise!, but the idea that this can be fun doesn't have to be confined to a system that is built around it.</p><p></p><p>But there are other options. I can't think of an instance of play involving <em>lying</em> right at the moment, but I can remember the following Insight check in <a href="http://www.enworld.org/forum/showthread.php?490454-Session-report-reposted-PCs-stave-of-the-Dusk-War-by-negotiating-with-Yan-C-Bin-and-defeating-the-tarrasque" target="_blank">a skill challenge in my 4e game</a>:</p><p></p><p style="margin-left: 20px">The PCs were negotiating with some maruts. The player of the scholar character, knowing that only one success was needed to win the challenge, made an Insight check with the goal of establishing his PC's knowledge of what final argument would sway the maruts. The player succeeded on this check, and so I invited him to then state the relevant argument, which he did.</p><p></p><p>I can't remember, a couple of years later, what my narration of failure would have been, but it wouldn't have been to tell the player a false belief his PC had about the maruts' intentions and arguments. Probably something more along the lines of the maruts telling him that they had had enough of his arguments, and were going to stick to their contract. Insight is a social skill, and so the actions that are declared that bring it into play involve interacting with people so as to be able to "read" them. So failures can be narrated drawing on the full range of consequences for doing poorly in social interaction.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="pemerton, post: 7590907, member: 42582"] Depending on context, I wouldn't necessarily use that as the consequence of a failed Insight check that was used to resolve an attempt to get a "read" on an NPC. There are some contexts (table mood, player mood, [I]which[/I] player, what RPG are we playing, what's the nature of this campaign, etc) in which it can be fun to invite a player to play his/her PC against player knowledge. The Dying Earth RPG is built on this premise!, but the idea that this can be fun doesn't have to be confined to a system that is built around it. But there are other options. I can't think of an instance of play involving [I]lying[/I] right at the moment, but I can remember the following Insight check in [url=http://www.enworld.org/forum/showthread.php?490454-Session-report-reposted-PCs-stave-of-the-Dusk-War-by-negotiating-with-Yan-C-Bin-and-defeating-the-tarrasque]a skill challenge in my 4e game[/url]: [indent]The PCs were negotiating with some maruts. The player of the scholar character, knowing that only one success was needed to win the challenge, made an Insight check with the goal of establishing his PC's knowledge of what final argument would sway the maruts. The player succeeded on this check, and so I invited him to then state the relevant argument, which he did.[/indent] I can't remember, a couple of years later, what my narration of failure would have been, but it wouldn't have been to tell the player a false belief his PC had about the maruts' intentions and arguments. Probably something more along the lines of the maruts telling him that they had had enough of his arguments, and were going to stick to their contract. Insight is a social skill, and so the actions that are declared that bring it into play involve interacting with people so as to be able to "read" them. So failures can be narrated drawing on the full range of consequences for doing poorly in social interaction. [/QUOTE]
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Should Insight be able to determine if an NPC is lying?
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