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General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
Should Insight be able to determine if an NPC is lying?
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<blockquote data-quote="iserith" data-source="post: 7591046" data-attributes="member: 97077"><p>Whether or not a PC noticing that an NPC is lying is perceived as being "overpowered" would definitely be dependent upon the game, as you say. If it is deemed "overpowered" though, as I mentioned in another thread, I think this is chiefly going to be the DM's fault due to how he or she structures social interaction challenges. If sussing out a lie is the only real challenge that is typically presented, then the players are incentivized to pump up Insight and then describe what they want to do accordingly, greatly reducing the difficulty of the challenge. It's like putting forth pit traps in every exploration challenge - pumping Perception and buying up all the 10-foot-poles is a likely result for the players, and pit traps will barely be a speed bump at that point. </p><p></p><p>The DMG suggests other ways to structure social interaction challenges where there's more to it than picking up on untruths. In a game like mine which uses these rules, there's a much greater incentive to try to uncover the NPC's ideal, bond, flaw, or agenda which can then be used to the PCs' advantage in adjusting the NPC's attitude as the PCs make their case. Improving the NPC's attitude temporarily increases the NPC's willingness to make sacrifices or take risks to do as the PCs ask and with a lower DC to boot, if a Charisma check is necessary to resolve what the NPC will do. As well, just like I would telegraph the presence of a trap or a secret door, I'm telegraphing that the NPC is lying by offering clues to that effect while also playing the NPC faithfully according to the personal characteristics I had to flesh out to design the challenge. If the players are paying attention, they can pick up on this which disincentives "Insight checking" every NPC they meet to avoid a "gotcha." (A meaningful consequence for failure on a failed Insight check - a requirement for there to be an ability check at all - also disincentivizes this behavior.)</p><p></p><p>So, in short, if detecting lies seems too powerful, a good solution may be to look under the hood and tinker with how social interaction challenges are structured and presented.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="iserith, post: 7591046, member: 97077"] Whether or not a PC noticing that an NPC is lying is perceived as being "overpowered" would definitely be dependent upon the game, as you say. If it is deemed "overpowered" though, as I mentioned in another thread, I think this is chiefly going to be the DM's fault due to how he or she structures social interaction challenges. If sussing out a lie is the only real challenge that is typically presented, then the players are incentivized to pump up Insight and then describe what they want to do accordingly, greatly reducing the difficulty of the challenge. It's like putting forth pit traps in every exploration challenge - pumping Perception and buying up all the 10-foot-poles is a likely result for the players, and pit traps will barely be a speed bump at that point. The DMG suggests other ways to structure social interaction challenges where there's more to it than picking up on untruths. In a game like mine which uses these rules, there's a much greater incentive to try to uncover the NPC's ideal, bond, flaw, or agenda which can then be used to the PCs' advantage in adjusting the NPC's attitude as the PCs make their case. Improving the NPC's attitude temporarily increases the NPC's willingness to make sacrifices or take risks to do as the PCs ask and with a lower DC to boot, if a Charisma check is necessary to resolve what the NPC will do. As well, just like I would telegraph the presence of a trap or a secret door, I'm telegraphing that the NPC is lying by offering clues to that effect while also playing the NPC faithfully according to the personal characteristics I had to flesh out to design the challenge. If the players are paying attention, they can pick up on this which disincentives "Insight checking" every NPC they meet to avoid a "gotcha." (A meaningful consequence for failure on a failed Insight check - a requirement for there to be an ability check at all - also disincentivizes this behavior.) So, in short, if detecting lies seems too powerful, a good solution may be to look under the hood and tinker with how social interaction challenges are structured and presented. [/QUOTE]
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Should Insight be able to determine if an NPC is lying?
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