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General Tabletop Discussion
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Should Insight be able to determine if an NPC is lying?
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<blockquote data-quote="Immortal Sun" data-source="post: 7591577"><p>Consulting the manual it is....</p><p></p><p>Alright, so I'm done with my household stuff, so I sat down and read through my 5E book. There are, quite literally, two sentences under "Search" in the PHB, which basically amount to "If you're gonna look for a thing, your DM may call for a check, and that check might also use a skill." The 5E DMG doesn't even cover searching. There's no mention of providing "specific information" or "enough information go let your DM know what you're doing" or anything like that. By the text, the player might very well be inclined to declare "I SEARCH!" and nothing more.</p><p></p><p>I checked my Pathfinder rulebook for "Perception" and there's no mention of what level of information the player needs to convey, like...<em>at all</em>, again it seems to be the player could declare "I PERCEIVE!" and it is up to the DM to determine the DC and what exactly the player perceives.</p><p></p><p>I checked my 3.5 PHB under "Spot" and is is simply a more verbose version of the Pathfinder perception rules, but <em>once again</em> results in no mention of requiring the player to provide sufficient information to the DM, it seems the rules are fully open to a player simply declaring "I SPOT!" and then the DM having to carry the rest.</p><p></p><p>I even checked the dreaded <strong>4TH EDITION!!!</strong> *horses whinney, lightning strikes* Now in <strong>4TH EDITION!!!</strong> *horses whinney, lightning strikes* under Perception it actually <em>specifies</em> that a player should only assume that they are searching adjacent squares. HA! The only edition that actually defines pixelbitching! But, doesn't actually say that the player needs to provide "sufficient information" of any detail level, only the assumption that your search is limited to your immediately adjacent squares.</p><p></p><p>NOW. I have just gone through 4 different rulebooks and <strong>NOT A SINGLE ONE OF THEM</strong> mentions requiring the player to provide sufficient information for the DM to adjudicate the results. They all seem to have a similar, if slightly differently worded answer of: "The player declares they're doing the skill, and the DM does the rest."</p><p></p><p>SO. If <em>you</em> believe there is something I have missed, <em>please</em> provide sources, book, page#. Alternatively, you may take this moment to roll back your claim that you do it "by the book." </p><p></p><p>And hey, look, it's fine if you <em>don't</em> do it by the book. You obviously expect players to provide some level of specificity to their task. That's fine. But clearly, nothing in the book demands this approach.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Immortal Sun, post: 7591577"] Consulting the manual it is.... Alright, so I'm done with my household stuff, so I sat down and read through my 5E book. There are, quite literally, two sentences under "Search" in the PHB, which basically amount to "If you're gonna look for a thing, your DM may call for a check, and that check might also use a skill." The 5E DMG doesn't even cover searching. There's no mention of providing "specific information" or "enough information go let your DM know what you're doing" or anything like that. By the text, the player might very well be inclined to declare "I SEARCH!" and nothing more. I checked my Pathfinder rulebook for "Perception" and there's no mention of what level of information the player needs to convey, like...[I]at all[/I], again it seems to be the player could declare "I PERCEIVE!" and it is up to the DM to determine the DC and what exactly the player perceives. I checked my 3.5 PHB under "Spot" and is is simply a more verbose version of the Pathfinder perception rules, but [I]once again[/I] results in no mention of requiring the player to provide sufficient information to the DM, it seems the rules are fully open to a player simply declaring "I SPOT!" and then the DM having to carry the rest. I even checked the dreaded [B]4TH EDITION!!![/B] *horses whinney, lightning strikes* Now in [B]4TH EDITION!!![/B] *horses whinney, lightning strikes* under Perception it actually [I]specifies[/I] that a player should only assume that they are searching adjacent squares. HA! The only edition that actually defines pixelbitching! But, doesn't actually say that the player needs to provide "sufficient information" of any detail level, only the assumption that your search is limited to your immediately adjacent squares. NOW. I have just gone through 4 different rulebooks and [B]NOT A SINGLE ONE OF THEM[/B] mentions requiring the player to provide sufficient information for the DM to adjudicate the results. They all seem to have a similar, if slightly differently worded answer of: "The player declares they're doing the skill, and the DM does the rest." SO. If [I]you[/I] believe there is something I have missed, [I]please[/I] provide sources, book, page#. Alternatively, you may take this moment to roll back your claim that you do it "by the book." And hey, look, it's fine if you [I]don't[/I] do it by the book. You obviously expect players to provide some level of specificity to their task. That's fine. But clearly, nothing in the book demands this approach. [/QUOTE]
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Should Insight be able to determine if an NPC is lying?
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