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General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
Should Insight be able to determine if an NPC is lying?
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<blockquote data-quote="D1Tremere" data-source="post: 7592503" data-attributes="member: 61148"><p>I am a bit late, and so I have missed what looks like a rather nasty turn to what started off as a nice topic.</p><p>That said, I wanted to address Elfcrusher's analysis of my statements. </p><p></p><p>You are correct in that I am stating a character's perceptions of the situation should be dictated for the player once it becomes a rules arbitrated scenario. I can understand that some people do not prefer this, but that is what rules do. They impose an external system on the individual. A player who, in your example, is given evidence to interpret is then calling upon the players faculties of their real world environment. This is not a good way to resolve situations involving in game consequences in my opinion. </p><p>The skill is a rule, it provides an in game effect. Giving a player clues to interpret could result in their not being able to perform as their characters would because they lack sufficient real world feedback, or it could result in their using real world feedback, such as knowledge of the DM's non-verbal communications to make their character decision. The use of dice and rule exists to mediate between real world wishes and in character reality. </p><p>To put it another way, everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but not their own reality. Rules often dictate reality for the character and a player often shapes their opinions or beliefs around that reality. A player who doesn't want their character's beliefs about intentions of an NPC dictated for them can always decide for their character without invoking rules, but once you roll the dice it would be unfair for them to have no consequences just because you may not like the results.</p><p></p><p>"My character thinks this NPC is lying" - perfectly fine in my opinion.</p><p>"I want to try to read this NPCs intentions with a skill but then ignore the results" - not cool in my book.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="D1Tremere, post: 7592503, member: 61148"] I am a bit late, and so I have missed what looks like a rather nasty turn to what started off as a nice topic. That said, I wanted to address Elfcrusher's analysis of my statements. You are correct in that I am stating a character's perceptions of the situation should be dictated for the player once it becomes a rules arbitrated scenario. I can understand that some people do not prefer this, but that is what rules do. They impose an external system on the individual. A player who, in your example, is given evidence to interpret is then calling upon the players faculties of their real world environment. This is not a good way to resolve situations involving in game consequences in my opinion. The skill is a rule, it provides an in game effect. Giving a player clues to interpret could result in their not being able to perform as their characters would because they lack sufficient real world feedback, or it could result in their using real world feedback, such as knowledge of the DM's non-verbal communications to make their character decision. The use of dice and rule exists to mediate between real world wishes and in character reality. To put it another way, everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but not their own reality. Rules often dictate reality for the character and a player often shapes their opinions or beliefs around that reality. A player who doesn't want their character's beliefs about intentions of an NPC dictated for them can always decide for their character without invoking rules, but once you roll the dice it would be unfair for them to have no consequences just because you may not like the results. "My character thinks this NPC is lying" - perfectly fine in my opinion. "I want to try to read this NPCs intentions with a skill but then ignore the results" - not cool in my book. [/QUOTE]
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Should Insight be able to determine if an NPC is lying?
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