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<blockquote data-quote="RangerWickett" data-source="post: 1701800" data-attributes="member: 63">I have a friend who thinks that saving throws are stupid, particularly Will saves for non-mind control spells.&nbsp; He thinks that, if a mage knows Telekinesis, he ought to be able to rip your heart out of your chest, or at least yank your sword out of its sheath, without you getting a save.Now, from a game standpoint, that's silly.&nbsp; It would be ridiculously unbalancing.&nbsp; Sure, it doesn't take but a few pounds of force to close off someone's carotid artery, but no sane DM would allow Mage Hand to kill someone by starving their brain.But from a narrative standpoint, it kinda makes sense.&nbsp; Some abilities are really strong, and maybe those sorts of powers should be higher level, and then not allow a save.Poison should just run its course.&nbsp; A save would let you slow the progress of the poison, but not even the healthiest person can just shrug off a dose of arsenic.&nbsp; Likewise, a spell that rips out your heart just rips out your heart, and you die.&nbsp; No save to resist.&nbsp; The force that is necessary to rip someone's heart out is not that great, so it should be, at most, a 5th level spell.&nbsp; Afterall, at 5th level you can use telekinesis to lift boulders.&nbsp; Certainly you should be able to eviscerate someone, right?This wouldn't fit the game's style, but does anyone want to have a game that is designed to emulate what magic would be like if it did exist, instead of a game in which magic is balanced for the sake of fun?I know I don't.&nbsp; I just thought somebody else might.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="RangerWickett, post: 1701800, member: 63"] I have a friend who thinks that saving throws are stupid, particularly Will saves for non-mind control spells. He thinks that, if a mage knows Telekinesis, he ought to be able to rip your heart out of your chest, or at least yank your sword out of its sheath, without you getting a save. Now, from a game standpoint, that's silly. It would be ridiculously unbalancing. Sure, it doesn't take but a few pounds of force to close off someone's carotid artery, but no sane DM would allow Mage Hand to kill someone by starving their brain. But from a narrative standpoint, it kinda makes sense. Some abilities are really strong, and maybe those sorts of powers should be higher level, and then not allow a save. Poison should just run its course. A save would let you slow the progress of the poison, but not even the healthiest person can just shrug off a dose of arsenic. Likewise, a spell that rips out your heart just rips out your heart, and you die. No save to resist. The force that is necessary to rip someone's heart out is not [i]that[/i] great, so it should be, at most, a 5th level spell. Afterall, at 5th level you can use telekinesis to lift boulders. Certainly you should be able to eviscerate someone, right? This wouldn't fit the game's style, but does anyone want to have a game that is designed to emulate what magic would be like if it did exist, instead of a game in which magic is balanced for the sake of fun? I know I don't. I just thought somebody else might. [/QUOTE]

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