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<blockquote data-quote="Gorgoroth" data-source="post: 6052309" data-attributes="member: 6674889">For those of youwho believe that Paladins' niche is only as some bastard step-child of Fighter + Cleric, you should check out the archetypes in Pathfinder. They aren't all good (okay, mostly aren't incredibly), but there are plenty enough combos that you could make only part of Paladin training that wouldn't be available to a cleric or a fighter separately, or it would make it too complicated to balance having a full, or even half ED progression with the spells vs their single-classed counterparts without getting completely swamped.What I really don't want to see, however, is 3e-style grocery-shopping list of classes to pick up and in what order. I'd rather no multiclassing and extensive class feature swapping ala 4e hybrid + hybrid talent system than either a feat-based or a level-by-level bump. I don't even see how 3e-style would be possible even in theory, given that fighters at level 1 get +3 to attack.I could see a fighter-mage with no expertise mechanic but takes spellcasting instead as a secondary, for example. Maybe a separate table for spellcasting progression if it's a secondary. It should be a &quot;thing&quot; to not get both mechanics, or if you do, no way to get full caster levels AND Expertise Dice. And no more than two classes, ever. With all the customization already possible, that should be enough.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Gorgoroth, post: 6052309, member: 6674889"] [b]For those of you[/b] who believe that Paladins' niche is only as some bastard step-child of Fighter + Cleric, you should check out the archetypes in Pathfinder. They aren't all good (okay, mostly aren't incredibly), but there are plenty enough combos that you could make only part of Paladin training that wouldn't be available to a cleric or a fighter separately, or it would make it too complicated to balance having a full, or even half ED progression with the spells vs their single-classed counterparts without getting completely swamped. What I really don't want to see, however, is 3e-style grocery-shopping list of classes to pick up and in what order. I'd rather no multiclassing and extensive class feature swapping ala 4e hybrid + hybrid talent system than either a feat-based or a level-by-level bump. I don't even see how 3e-style would be possible even in theory, given that fighters at level 1 get +3 to attack. I could see a fighter-mage with no expertise mechanic but takes spellcasting instead as a secondary, for example. Maybe a separate table for spellcasting progression if it's a secondary. It should be a "thing" to not get both mechanics, or if you do, no way to get full caster levels AND Expertise Dice. And no more than two classes, ever. With all the customization already possible, that should be enough. [/QUOTE]

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