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General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
Should NPCs be built using the same rules as PCs?
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<blockquote data-quote="kigmatzomat" data-source="post: 9148762" data-attributes="member: 9254"><p>I say yes and no.</p><ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Any "adventurer" type NPC should follow PC* rules (rogue/wizard)</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">"Monster" type NPCs use monster rules (young dragon vs adult dragon)</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">"Monstrous Adventurers" get monster rules plus adventurer rules (i.e. adult dragon/rogue) which can be used to cover >90% of special cases</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Non-adventuring NPCs can use different rules but they should be a similar framework and shouldn't have any significant abilities not available to adventurers (i.e. "noble")</li> </ul><p>*The universal exception is the "Servant of Fate" class, which is full of game breaking features and can only be taken by NPCs. It usually involves some custom monster template IMO. If a PC finds a way to take this class, they hand the character to the DM. Servants of Fate should be either very rare or horrifyingly common depending on the game. </p><p></p><p>The big thing to me is to know where the competency breakpoints are and that they make sense. I.e. what roll does a "journeyman" tradesman make vs a newly minted "master" tradesman and how does that compare to PCs with the equivalent skills?</p><p></p><p>Because I have seen games where a "retired mercenary" PC needs a half dozen adventures of advancement to match a typical security guard. And that sucks.</p><p></p><p>5e simplifies most of it as proficiency bonus is standardized and simple as compared to spending 3.x skill points. I am truly irritated that DMG didn't have a simple "non-class" generic NPC framework. I mean, if the default peasant "non-class" is defined as 3+d0 hp and get 4 skills, Expertise in one skill at level 1. Each time they increase their PB, they gain another skill, another Expertise and the primary stat for their Expertise provides a +1 bonus.</p><p></p><p>Add race & age modifiers / gm flavoring on top if you care that much.</p><p></p><p>This covers most ills as the default NPC has a +0 except on their 3 skills that are +2 and their expertise is +4. 3hp.</p><p></p><p>An advanced NPC has +0 except on 3 skills that are +3, and they are +7 in their 2 areas of expertise. 3hp.</p><p></p><p>NPCs of renown are +0 except on 3 skills they are +4 and they are +10 on 3 areas of expertise. 3hp</p><p></p><p>Legendary NPCs are +0 except on 3 skills they are +5 and they are +13 on 4 areas of expertise. 3hp</p><p></p><p>Mythic NPCs are +0 except on 3 skills they are +6, and they are +16 on 5 areas of expertise. 3hp</p><p></p><p>This covers like 90% of non-adventuring NPCs as all you need is their skills, expertises and race modifiers in the statblock. It lets PCs judge themselves against NPCs in useful ways, which also goes to setting expectations on PCs interacting with NPCs.</p><p></p><p>The typical 5th level PC knows they are on par with an Advanced expert and need to seek out a Reknowned or Legendary NPC for them to have a material chance of providing insights the PC can not.</p><p></p><p>The honey-tongued 5th level elven bard may be on par with most Renowned diplomat NPCs and can gain a suitable reputation.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="kigmatzomat, post: 9148762, member: 9254"] I say yes and no. [LIST] [*]Any "adventurer" type NPC should follow PC* rules (rogue/wizard) [*]"Monster" type NPCs use monster rules (young dragon vs adult dragon) [*]"Monstrous Adventurers" get monster rules plus adventurer rules (i.e. adult dragon/rogue) which can be used to cover >90% of special cases [*]Non-adventuring NPCs can use different rules but they should be a similar framework and shouldn't have any significant abilities not available to adventurers (i.e. "noble") [/LIST] *The universal exception is the "Servant of Fate" class, which is full of game breaking features and can only be taken by NPCs. It usually involves some custom monster template IMO. If a PC finds a way to take this class, they hand the character to the DM. Servants of Fate should be either very rare or horrifyingly common depending on the game. The big thing to me is to know where the competency breakpoints are and that they make sense. I.e. what roll does a "journeyman" tradesman make vs a newly minted "master" tradesman and how does that compare to PCs with the equivalent skills? Because I have seen games where a "retired mercenary" PC needs a half dozen adventures of advancement to match a typical security guard. And that sucks. 5e simplifies most of it as proficiency bonus is standardized and simple as compared to spending 3.x skill points. I am truly irritated that DMG didn't have a simple "non-class" generic NPC framework. I mean, if the default peasant "non-class" is defined as 3+d0 hp and get 4 skills, Expertise in one skill at level 1. Each time they increase their PB, they gain another skill, another Expertise and the primary stat for their Expertise provides a +1 bonus. Add race & age modifiers / gm flavoring on top if you care that much. This covers most ills as the default NPC has a +0 except on their 3 skills that are +2 and their expertise is +4. 3hp. An advanced NPC has +0 except on 3 skills that are +3, and they are +7 in their 2 areas of expertise. 3hp. NPCs of renown are +0 except on 3 skills they are +4 and they are +10 on 3 areas of expertise. 3hp Legendary NPCs are +0 except on 3 skills they are +5 and they are +13 on 4 areas of expertise. 3hp Mythic NPCs are +0 except on 3 skills they are +6, and they are +16 on 5 areas of expertise. 3hp This covers like 90% of non-adventuring NPCs as all you need is their skills, expertises and race modifiers in the statblock. It lets PCs judge themselves against NPCs in useful ways, which also goes to setting expectations on PCs interacting with NPCs. The typical 5th level PC knows they are on par with an Advanced expert and need to seek out a Reknowned or Legendary NPC for them to have a material chance of providing insights the PC can not. The honey-tongued 5th level elven bard may be on par with most Renowned diplomat NPCs and can gain a suitable reputation. [/QUOTE]
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Should NPCs be built using the same rules as PCs?
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