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Should personality or mental stats exist?
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<blockquote data-quote="kenada" data-source="post: 9253485" data-attributes="member: 70468"><p>This seems more of an issue with games that encourage heavily specialization because the characters are expected to face challenges their specialities can overcome. If I make a bard that can talk an unstoppable force into taking a breather, I probably want to do that on occasion. Otherwise, what’s the point, right?</p><p></p><p></p><p>The difference between an 8 and a 10 is a 5% chance of success. It’s the same as the difference between a +2 and a +3 proficiency bonus. Are 1st level characters bumblingly incompetent compared to 5th level characters in 5e? No? Then why should a character with a similar difference in Int be completely stupid? It seems like the dice should be able to handle this difference since it’s baked into the modifiers applied to the roll. It just needs to be made to come up in some way. For example, when <a href="https://www.enworld.org/threads/commentary-thread-for-that-“describe-your-game-in-five-words”-thread.682741/post-8712297" target="_blank">Deirdre wanted to lead a bulette away from their settlement</a>, she would roll Manipulate + Intellect to entice it into following her plan. (Note: that post uses old skills and attributes. Those are what we would use currently. Her Intellect is −1, so it’s definitely not her best stat, but it’s what was indicated by the approach her player chose.)</p><p></p><p></p><p>Another possibility is allowing flexible skill usage with ability score based on what the character is doing. If a fighter has a high Strength, they should be able to do something involving displays of their physical prowess. Perhaps the NPC is apt to be impressed by the fighter’s physique, allowing the fighter to roll Persuasion (Strength) instead of the usual Persuasion (Charisma). Maybe the barbarian is unrelenting and stands outside for days until they get an answer, allowing for Persuasion (Constitution). Maybe the rogue’s displays of legerdemain are enough to convince a potential benefactor they’re up to the task of stealing an item discretely, so Persuasion (Dexterity). This could also go the other way. Perhaps the wizard is very studied on the nature of walls and knows all the techniques for climbing them safely, therefore Athletics (Intelligence). And so on. There are social rules in the 5e DMG (on pp. 244–245) that may be useful in that game for providing a way to establish that certain flexible usages are permissible (e.g., discovering an old NPC has an ideal pertaining to health and long-livedness).</p><p></p><p style="text-align: center">⁂</p><p></p><p>My homebrew system keeps mental attributes, though it uses a different list compared to D&D: Intellect (reasoning and smarts), Wisdom (based on experiences), Willpower (withstanding mental trials and punishment). Attributes are also allocated semi-randomly. You increase two and one randomly during character creation then roll on a table (based on your ancestry) to determine which of mental or physical (your choice of three) to increase. You roll again on the table at 2nd and every even level after that. When a check is made, the player picks the attribute for the approach (unless it’s dictated by the action such as Strength being used to make a Melee Attack). That gives the players a lot of flexibility to decide how to go about a check, and my players have been pretty creative with it (see <a href="https://www.enworld.org/search/2628096/?t=post&c[thread]=682741&c[users]=kenada&o=date" target="_blank">my posts in the 5-words commentary thread</a> for examples). Obviously, the approach has to make sense for a situation (i.e., you have to be in position). If it’s not established that the approach will work with the opposition or is possible, then you have to take steps to make it so or use a different approach. It’s like needing to move into melee range to make a Melee Attack.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="kenada, post: 9253485, member: 70468"] This seems more of an issue with games that encourage heavily specialization because the characters are expected to face challenges their specialities can overcome. If I make a bard that can talk an unstoppable force into taking a breather, I probably want to do that on occasion. Otherwise, what’s the point, right? The difference between an 8 and a 10 is a 5% chance of success. It’s the same as the difference between a +2 and a +3 proficiency bonus. Are 1st level characters bumblingly incompetent compared to 5th level characters in 5e? No? Then why should a character with a similar difference in Int be completely stupid? It seems like the dice should be able to handle this difference since it’s baked into the modifiers applied to the roll. It just needs to be made to come up in some way. For example, when [URL='https://www.enworld.org/threads/commentary-thread-for-that-“describe-your-game-in-five-words”-thread.682741/post-8712297']Deirdre wanted to lead a bulette away from their settlement[/URL], she would roll Manipulate + Intellect to entice it into following her plan. (Note: that post uses old skills and attributes. Those are what we would use currently. Her Intellect is −1, so it’s definitely not her best stat, but it’s what was indicated by the approach her player chose.) Another possibility is allowing flexible skill usage with ability score based on what the character is doing. If a fighter has a high Strength, they should be able to do something involving displays of their physical prowess. Perhaps the NPC is apt to be impressed by the fighter’s physique, allowing the fighter to roll Persuasion (Strength) instead of the usual Persuasion (Charisma). Maybe the barbarian is unrelenting and stands outside for days until they get an answer, allowing for Persuasion (Constitution). Maybe the rogue’s displays of legerdemain are enough to convince a potential benefactor they’re up to the task of stealing an item discretely, so Persuasion (Dexterity). This could also go the other way. Perhaps the wizard is very studied on the nature of walls and knows all the techniques for climbing them safely, therefore Athletics (Intelligence). And so on. There are social rules in the 5e DMG (on pp. 244–245) that may be useful in that game for providing a way to establish that certain flexible usages are permissible (e.g., discovering an old NPC has an ideal pertaining to health and long-livedness). [CENTER]⁂[/CENTER] My homebrew system keeps mental attributes, though it uses a different list compared to D&D: Intellect (reasoning and smarts), Wisdom (based on experiences), Willpower (withstanding mental trials and punishment). Attributes are also allocated semi-randomly. You increase two and one randomly during character creation then roll on a table (based on your ancestry) to determine which of mental or physical (your choice of three) to increase. You roll again on the table at 2nd and every even level after that. When a check is made, the player picks the attribute for the approach (unless it’s dictated by the action such as Strength being used to make a Melee Attack). That gives the players a lot of flexibility to decide how to go about a check, and my players have been pretty creative with it (see [URL='https://www.enworld.org/search/2628096/?t=post&c[thread]=682741&c[users]=kenada&o=date']my posts in the 5-words commentary thread[/URL] for examples). Obviously, the approach has to make sense for a situation (i.e., you have to be in position). If it’s not established that the approach will work with the opposition or is possible, then you have to take steps to make it so or use a different approach. It’s like needing to move into melee range to make a Melee Attack. [/QUOTE]
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