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<blockquote data-quote="Bill Zebub" data-source="post: 9253824" data-attributes="member: 7031982">I'm somewhat heretical on these things, but while I think mental traits are great for things like spellcasting stats, or for saving throws resisting various kinds of magic, I loathe using them to determine how smart/wise/whatever a character is in the mundane sense.&nbsp; Especially in &quot;knowing&quot; information.&nbsp; It's not the use of the Int modifier I object to here, it's the very premise of using RNG at all to see if a character knows something.&nbsp; There are really only two types of secret information: the kind that has meaningful impact on the game, and the kind that doesn't.&nbsp; If it has meaningful impact on the game it should be the result of play, not of rolling dice.&nbsp; We don't give somebody a magic sword just because they make a nat 20 blacksmithing check, why give them the vital information just because they ask if they know it?&nbsp; Make them work for it?&nbsp; And if the information doesn't have meaningful impact, give it to them just as a reward for asking.&nbsp; Or for not asking, if you simply want them to have the flavor.As with rolling to detect secret doors and traps, rolling to &quot;know stuff&quot; has been part of the game for so long that I know a lot of you are going to scratch your heads at this.&nbsp; But it's dumb.&nbsp; It's bad game design/play.&nbsp; Or, at least, it's board game design, and should have no place in an RPG.(Caveat: I will sometimes call for a mental attribute roll only to decide which player &quot;knows&quot; the information I'm about to give away for free, not whether any of them know it.&nbsp; Sometimes the barbarian lucks out and is the winner.)So, really, I think loaded words like &quot;intelligence&quot; and &quot;wisdom&quot; and &quot;charisma&quot; should be replaced with words that are clearly magical/mystical in nature.&nbsp; And &quot;strength&quot; should probably be replaced with &quot;might&quot;.&nbsp; (Ever notice that those who want to draw a parallel between mental and physical attributes ALWAYS use Strength as the example? &quot;You don't ask the player to bench press a cow...&quot; etc.&nbsp; Why don't they ever try to make similar arguments based on Dexterity and Constitution?)</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Bill Zebub, post: 9253824, member: 7031982"] I'm somewhat heretical on these things, but while I think mental traits are great for things like spellcasting stats, or for saving throws resisting various kinds of magic, I loathe using them to determine how smart/wise/whatever a character is in the mundane sense. Especially in "knowing" information. It's not the use of the Int modifier I object to here, it's the very premise of using RNG at all to see if a character knows something. There are really only two types of secret information: the kind that has meaningful impact on the game, and the kind that doesn't. If it has meaningful impact on the game it should be the result of play, not of rolling dice. We don't give somebody a magic sword just because they make a nat 20 blacksmithing check, why give them the vital information just because they ask if they know it? Make them work for it? And if the information doesn't have meaningful impact, give it to them just as a reward for asking. Or for not asking, if you simply want them to have the flavor. As with rolling to detect secret doors and traps, rolling to "know stuff" has been part of the game for so long that I know a lot of you are going to scratch your heads at this. But it's dumb. It's bad game design/play. Or, at least, it's board game design, and should have no place in an RPG. (Caveat: I will sometimes call for a mental attribute roll only to decide which player "knows" the information I'm about to give away for free, not whether any of them know it. Sometimes the barbarian lucks out and is the winner.) So, really, I think loaded words like "intelligence" and "wisdom" and "charisma" should be replaced with words that are clearly magical/mystical in nature. And "strength" should probably be replaced with "might". (Ever notice that those who want to draw a parallel between mental and physical attributes ALWAYS use Strength as the example? "You don't ask the player to bench press a cow..." etc. Why don't they ever try to make similar arguments based on Dexterity and Constitution?) [/QUOTE]

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