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<blockquote data-quote="Bill Zebub" data-source="post: 8830147" data-attributes="member: 7031982">I know you said &quot;leave it&quot; but can I engage you on this 'asymmetrical' thing?If the person who controls a character declares an attempt to manipulate another character, and the person who controls the target character adjudicates the outcome, first by deciding whether or not it succeeds, and then if they aren't sure by setting a DC and asking for a roll, then we do have symmetry.&nbsp; In the case of PC acting on NPC, it's the DM who adjudicates using those steps.&nbsp; In the case of an NPC acting on a PC it's the player who adjudicates.&nbsp; It's perfectly symmetrical.When it becomes asymmetrical is when it's the DM who adjudicates regardless of whether they are initiating the attempt or on the receiving end of it.Thoughts?EDIT: That doesn't mean that somebody's personal preference about how to handle these things couldn't require asymmetrical rules.&nbsp; That's valid.&nbsp; I'm just debating which version is truly symmetrical.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Bill Zebub, post: 8830147, member: 7031982"] I know you said "leave it" but can I engage you on this 'asymmetrical' thing? If the person who controls a character declares an attempt to manipulate another character, and the person who controls the target character adjudicates the outcome, first by deciding whether or not it succeeds, and then if they aren't sure by setting a DC and asking for a roll, then we [I]do[/I] have symmetry. In the case of PC acting on NPC, it's the DM who adjudicates using those steps. In the case of an NPC acting on a PC it's the player who adjudicates. It's perfectly symmetrical. When it becomes asymmetrical is when it's the DM who adjudicates regardless of whether they are initiating the attempt or on the receiving end of it. Thoughts? EDIT: That doesn't mean that somebody's personal preference about how to handle these things couldn't require asymmetrical rules. That's valid. I'm just debating which version is truly symmetrical. [/QUOTE]

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