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<blockquote data-quote="D+1" data-source="post: 2184111" data-attributes="member: 13654">My experience with players is that learning the rules is utterly irrelevant to their becoming gamist.&nbsp; It is only if WHILE they are learning the rules they are simultaneously indoctrinated to be gamist that their roleplaying includes &quot;bad habits&quot;.&nbsp; If, on the other hand, while they are taught the rules they are also taught that the rules have LIMITS that roleplaying can and should ignore they do not develop &quot;bad habits&quot; for roleplaying yet also have no problems adapting to a very gamist atmosphere when needed/desired.&nbsp; But that's just my experience.I agree.But... a person who KNOWS the rules is much less likely to fear that he's doing something &quot;wrong&quot;.&nbsp; Roleplaying isn't ever inhibited because you know the rules - but it can be inhibited if you're inclined to think that the rules are the be-all end-all.So, are you actually saying that learning the rules DECREASES confidence in your ability to play the game?It is not knowledge of the rules that is EVER a problem - it is how you treat the rules (especially if you're treating them very differently from others at the table).Um...&nbsp; EVERYONE doesn't know the rules initially if they've never played the game before.&nbsp; If YOU are the one teaching them &quot;how to game&quot; clearly you're going to be much more satisfied with the results than if they were taught to play differently by someone else.&nbsp; That is unless you happened to be a VERY bad teacher.Tournament play is NOT the same thing.&nbsp; Tournaments have RULES very much above and beyond your typical kitchen table game of D&amp;D.&nbsp; Tournaments KEEP SCORE.&nbsp; D&amp;D in and of itself has no winners and losers.&nbsp; It simply wasn't DESINGED for that.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="D+1, post: 2184111, member: 13654"] My experience with players is that learning the rules is utterly irrelevant to their becoming gamist. It is only if WHILE they are learning the rules they are simultaneously indoctrinated to be gamist that their roleplaying includes "bad habits". If, on the other hand, while they are taught the rules they are also taught that the rules have LIMITS that roleplaying can and should ignore they do not develop "bad habits" for roleplaying yet also have no problems adapting to a very gamist atmosphere when needed/desired. But that's just my experience. I agree.But... a person who KNOWS the rules is much [I]less[/I] likely to fear that he's doing something "wrong". Roleplaying isn't ever [I]inhibited[/I] because you know the rules - but it can be inhibited if you're inclined to think that the rules are the be-all end-all. So, are you actually saying that learning the rules DECREASES confidence in your ability to play the game? It is not knowledge of the rules that is EVER a problem - it is how you treat the rules (especially if you're treating them very differently from others at the table). Um... EVERYONE doesn't know the rules initially if they've never played the game before. If YOU are the one teaching them "how to game" clearly you're going to be much more satisfied with the results than if they were taught to play differently by someone else. That is unless you happened to be a VERY bad teacher. Tournament play is NOT the same thing. Tournaments have RULES very much above and beyond your typical kitchen table game of D&D. Tournaments KEEP SCORE. D&D in and of itself has no winners and losers. It simply wasn't DESINGED for that. [/QUOTE]

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