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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Wraith-Hunter" data-source="post: 3339305" data-attributes="member: 48298">Again the problem is NOT the Incantrix PrC. The problem is the sorcerer class sucks. (That said I am playing one right now and having fun but there are some MAJOR annoyances with it).There is ZERO reason for any sorcerer stay as a sorcerer. If you want a familiar it is better to take the feat at some point as all your caster levels stack, and get the fast metamagic ability from complete mage instead. Then you get normal metamagic for a few times a day and all your cster levels for the familiar. Basically paying a feat to get the ability to make metamagic normal CT 3+int modifier a day.When 3.0 came out we were going from lots of players playing 1e as well as 2e of course. The classes were fine at the time (except for the ranger  <img src="http://www.enworld.org/forum/images/smilies/devious.png"  class="smilie" loading="lazy" alt=":]" title="Devious    :]" data-shortname=":]" /> ). The play style was still very similar to 1e/2e. There were not man PrC's the main sorcerer one didn't even advance spell casting.I took a break from D&D for the last few years, never played 3.5 till now. The change in design and play mentality HAS changed. You can see that in all the new base classes. With the release of all the suppliments there are tons of feats and PrC's Multiclassing became more of the norm, sticking with one class became mostly a thing of the past. The posters I see who advocate not multiclassing and taking multiple PrC's are generally those who are in more of a 1e/2e mind set (not that this is a bad thing to each his own, just not my cup of tea). I personally like to optimize, I also put in a great deal of time into character background and role playing but can't stand to play a character who is not as good as they can be at what they do. Doesn't mean they have to be the best character in the party or the best in their role, but for the concecpt I have in mind.I see this starkly from running a 3.0 game taking a few years off then getting back into 3.5 after the all this time. I pick up the new books and the new classes are MUCH more focused. Most of the new base classes make taking a PrC a very difficult proposition. There is MUCH to loose.You can also see that the designers realized that spont casting was good, but not the end all be all of arcane magic. All it needs to balance it is a smaller list of known spells and a slightly delayed progression. Quicken spell is ALWAYS going to be powerfull as the currency in D&D is the number of actions you have. Most of the new spont casters have a focused list and even know a shocking number of spells to cast, at the cost of flexibility. AND they have good abilities to keep a player interested in the class.The sorcerer for instance which is my pet peave and to a slightly lesser extent the wizard. I come from 1e/2e so I am personally a bit more comfortable with sticking with a single class or maybe 2. BUT there has to be a design reason to do so. And it seems like WotC is in agreement. Both these classes and at least the fighter as well need some class abilites at appripriate levels that are good enough to warrent staying with the class. As it stands there just aren't any. Nearly all the people I have seen post with 1 class builds especially from these 3 classes is either a 1e/2e holdover or is new and doesn't have a grasp of the rules yet. And I'm sure we have all seen posts debating optimized vs non optimized characters, a well put together character is more powerfull in a significant way.It is more work to rework the base classes and more work adapting adventures to it which is probably WHY people are looking at 'fixing' the PrCs. Changing the PrC's is certainly less disruptive of the campaign mostly from the ammount of work on the DM's part. But I think this will tend to piss off players and is like taking an asprine for a sinus headache. It does alittle to fix it but you took the wrong pill. Go to walmart and pick up some claratin. Sure takes more work and you have to pay a bit more than just asprine, but you will feel better.When if 3.5 revised/4e comes out. I think that some of these issues WILL be taken care of.I'm nt sure what to do about the fighter, and I'd have to think about the wizard, but for the sorcerer I would use Monte Cooks, from The Eldritch Might 2, but use the standard spell list. Too many suppliments and too much monkeying around with Montes. Maybe put in the fast metamagic as a 14th - 16th level (or so) ability and make quicken spell cost 5 or 6 spell slots for a sorcerer. Add some bonus heratige or similar feats at certain levels. Wizard I'd have to think about more, but adding some decent class features would make all the differance. The problem is the unforseen methods of play (and all the playtesters were used to 1e/2e play style) and the changes this caused. In a core only game it is not as much of a problem though. But WotC's best interests is not a core only game. I think the new base classes are a foreshadow of what the revised core classes will be. Something mechanical to make people  stay in a single class longer and not PrC as much. Then published materials will support this and there will be less work for DMs to convert.So if you want to fix the problem fix the base classes. Most PrCs are fine. The incantrix for example is an example of a PrC that makes you WANT to stay for the whole 10 levels. At most add a Spell Focus Abjuration to the reqs. Problem ones are like Dragonslayer who are only ever used as a dip class, and to qualify for other PrC's. And if a PrC makes a character weaker it won't be used and is a WASTE of effort. If you have to give up feats and skill points then the damn PrC BETTER be better than the base class. Spending a feat you would never take otherwise or is substandard especially for a caster is a sacrifice and should be rewarded.</blockquote>

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