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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Wraith-Hunter" data-source="post: 3339689" data-attributes="member: 48298">Both good examples. In the case of the sorcerer the idea of spontaneous casting was so new and believed to be SO powerfull that that was the justification for giving the sorcerer nothing else. That and the existing PrC's were more geard towards wizards and the sorcerer one dragon disciple didn't get any boost to spell casting. I think it took some time in play with sorcerers to see that spontaneous casting is good but not THAT good. That and the sheer number of PrC's means that nobody in their right mind will take sorcerer 20. Unless you are writing an NPC for WotC that is, but then hey I'd just be happy if they followed the rules of the game at that point (see the starting packages in PHBII). Really Monte Cook hit the nail almost perfectly. The only changes I would make is add some high level abilities to the Sorc to make getting there worth it and some bonus heratige type feats (these came after his sorc. class though I think). That and just use the standard wizard/sorc spell list his is too much of a pain.The Abjurant champion is really really good. Combat Casting is not the best feat but usefull. A d10 hit dice is a bit much though and wizards should really proof read things, the class obviously thiks mage armor is an abjuration spell. If they are going back to 2e dual school spells it should probably be abjuration/conjuration.I think a d6 hit die for the class would be fine.PrC's are also getting more focused and getting rid of requireing pointless feats. You can tell and early PrC from a later one but feat pre-reqs. Earlier ones generally have you take totally useless timmy feats to get into as a cost. (dumb IMHO). Newer ones are generally shorter 5 levels vs 10 and requires feats that fit the theme, and in some case even have a focus for the class.I really think the next version/revision of the rules will redesign some of the base classes so that there is reason to stay with them and you will give up something GOOD to PrC. I also think characters will get more feats, and PrC's will be more focused and require feats that are generally ok and at least make sense. In regards to multi-classing in 1/2e I played kind of a hybrid 1/2e (I was a kid and didn't really understand the differances in versions. (I think I hade a 2e PHB and a 1e DMG  <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f600.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":D" title="Big grin    :D"  data-smilie="8"data-shortname=":D" /> Random dungeons rule!). After HS I played alot of 2e and 2e Players Options (talk about broken!!). I played lots of Fighter/Mages. But multi-classing was MUCH different. Had to be very specific and by race and such. 3e Multiclassing is not even in the same leauge.When 3e came out, still being used to 2e, I would have NEVER allowed multiple PrC's and fround upon lots of multiclasses for a level or 2. Now I have fully embraced multi-classing as it is often the only way to build a concept. I usually come up with a concept then figure out how to build it, rather than try to stick to an archtype. Options not restrictions. I look at classes now even PrCs more like skills and feats than as classes in the old sense, just a way to build in the abilities to get your concept.Duskblade is a great class. I personally don't like the lack of flexibility in the spells, just a substitution for fighter feats to damage an enemy, and the lack of any utility. But with the right feats and maybe the ability to get a few spells from outside the list it would be perect. For a straight up Fighter/Mage who is not interested in battlefield control / utility then it is perfect. Really should be called the bladesinger because that is what it is. It is a great example of how a class should be built, and I think is a preview of things to come. I really can't think of any PrC's that I would think are a no brainer for the class. The base class is really good at being a fighter/mage. And to PrC you have to make some tough choices.ETA: The rapid metamagic is great. want to keep a sorc in sorc all the time? Let a sorc keep the familiar or swap out for a feat. Give rapid metamagic 1 a day @3rd and add one use every so often where at 15 or so they can do it all the time. At 16 let the cost for metamagic drop 1 level -NOT NEGATIVE LEVELS- and Not stacking (apply 3 metamagic feats and get a 1 level reduction total.) at say 17th or so (about the same level as you would get for incantrix). Use 4 skill points and montes skill list and you will see much fewer PrC'd sorcerers.</blockquote>

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