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<blockquote data-quote="Reynard" data-source="post: 4011304" data-attributes="member: 467">Game balance in an illusionary bugagboo.&nbsp; After all, what are we trying to balnce?&nbsp; One PC against another?&nbsp; Why?&nbsp; Are they going to fight?&nbsp; If the issue is whether the players are going to have equal fun, wouldn't &quot;player balance&quot; be a more appropriate design goal?&nbsp; Are we trying to balance the PCs versus the foes?&nbsp; Doesn't work.&nbsp; Doesn't even exist, in fact.&nbsp; The DM has -- or had, prior to 4E it seems -- all the tools necessary to make a cakewalk or a meatgrinder or anything between the two.&nbsp; 1st level PCs can be given an artifact, and the game can still be fun and not be &quot;broken&quot;; 20th level PCs can have one sword +1 between them, and the same can be true.Balance really means &quot;boundaries&quot; -- the idea is to play the game within these restrictions so that neither the players nor the Dm need to work or think too hard.&nbsp; If our party is 4th level and there's four badguys after us, then those must be 4th level enemies so the outcome, sans the (continually reduced) element of uncertainty provided by the dice, is easily predicted.I think 4E is trying to be a lot more of a &quot;game&quot; than any edition of D&amp;D has yet been, and this is not a good thing.&nbsp; Games -- endeavors of entertainment with &quot;balanced&quot; rules and clear goals and endgame conditions -- are not a great model for the fluid, free, uncertain and malleable beast that is an RPG.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Reynard, post: 4011304, member: 467"] Game balance in an illusionary bugagboo. After all, what are we trying to balnce? One PC against another? Why? Are they going to fight? If the issue is whether the players are going to have equal fun, wouldn't "player balance" be a more appropriate design goal? Are we trying to balance the PCs versus the foes? Doesn't work. Doesn't even exist, in fact. The DM has -- or had, prior to 4E it seems -- all the tools necessary to make a cakewalk or a meatgrinder or anything between the two. 1st level PCs can be given an artifact, and the game can still be fun and not be "broken"; 20th level PCs can have one sword +1 between them, and the same can be true. Balance really means "boundaries" -- the idea is to play the game within these restrictions so that neither the players nor the Dm need to work or think too hard. If our party is 4th level and there's four badguys after us, then those must be 4th level enemies so the outcome, sans the (continually reduced) element of uncertainty provided by the dice, is easily predicted. I think 4E is trying to be a lot more of a "game" than any edition of D&D has yet been, and this is not a good thing. Games -- endeavors of entertainment with "balanced" rules and clear goals and endgame conditions -- are not a great model for the fluid, free, uncertain and malleable beast that is an RPG. [/QUOTE]

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