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<blockquote data-quote="Blue" data-source="post: 7801490" data-attributes="member: 20564">At the loss of an action?&nbsp; That's not comparable to half of their movement.&nbsp; I demonstrated that it was unfair even before adding in allies.&nbsp; So debating allies won't change the stace I laid out.&nbsp; They are just extra.That said, there will be times that allies can get there without OAs. There are plenty of times when it's worth it to suck a single OA in order to focus fire with advantage. So it's already imbalanced and allies make it more so.With melee attacks it's pretty hard to add in obscurement with just your body.I would put forth that a PC will likely be able to gauge which opponents they can shove easily. Don't try it on an ogre or dragon, prone that pixie, caster, giant rat, or whatever looks like Athletics is not it's forte.Plus rememebr the lessons we learned from 3.5, where if an effective mechanical trick exists people can and will optimize for it. Expertise in Athletics is already useful for grappling builds, gotten through rogue 1, bard 2, or human Prodigy racial feat. All barbarians get advantage on STR checks while raging. This is not hard to optimize for if it exists as an exploitable option.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Blue, post: 7801490, member: 20564"] At the loss of an action? That's not comparable to half of their movement. I demonstrated that it was unfair even before adding in allies. So debating allies won't change the stace I laid out. They are just extra. That said, there will be times that allies can get there without OAs. There are plenty of times when it's worth it to suck a single OA in order to focus fire with advantage. So it's already imbalanced and allies make it more so. With melee attacks it's pretty hard to add in obscurement with just your body. I would put forth that a PC will likely be able to gauge which opponents they can shove easily. Don't try it on an ogre or dragon, prone that pixie, caster, giant rat, or whatever looks like Athletics is not it's forte. Plus rememebr the lessons we learned from 3.5, where if an effective mechanical trick exists people can and will optimize for it. Expertise in Athletics is already useful for grappling builds, gotten through rogue 1, bard 2, or human Prodigy racial feat. All barbarians get advantage on STR checks while raging. This is not hard to optimize for if it exists as an exploitable option. [/QUOTE]

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