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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Rechan" data-source="post: 5101673" data-attributes="member: 54846">But again, it seems like we're arguing over the trees for the forest, so let me be plain as day.This is what the hell I'm talking about.Bill, Mike, Jeff, Tim and Erin decide to play D&D. "Who will DM?" says Erin.Bill says, "I will, I guess." Everyone agrees. Bill has no idea what he's going to do. Mike plays an illusionist. Jeff plays a rogue focusing on bluffing, diplomacy, forgery and hiding. Tim plays a barbarian who does lots of damage on a charge and intimidating. Erin plays a fighter.Bill checks everyone's character and says "OK, this all checks out."Bill then decides to send everyone into tunnels of kobolds for a level, and then crypts of undead for a level. The kobolds can't understand Jeff so they aren't susceptible to his bluffing or diplomacy, and Jeff has nothing to forge, and it's hard to get flanks in these tunnels. Tim can't really charge in all these cramped tunnels, but he can intimidate. Mike can use invisibility and other illusions on the kobolds. Erin can bash things in the face just fine.In the catacombs, Mike's illusions are just useless against undead. Jeff again can't use social skills on the enemies because they're mindless undead, and he can't sneak attack them. Tim can now at least charge, but he can't intimidate. Erin can bash things int he face just fine. The crux of the matter: Is Bill a Bad DM, because he is ignoring the focuses/abilities of his PCs? Or is it the players at fault for playing characters who aren't utilitarian and clearly don't fit whatever Bill's game will be?I say that Bill is a bad DM. He chose those areas after the fact, after seeing the PCs sheets, and chose to NOT incorporate any of their strengths into the game. Two of the four PCs are regularly out of luck because their specialities are just not usable against the enemies or the environemnt, and one (Tim) can only use half of his tricks.Bill should have looked at the characters and said "I need to use intelligent enemies often, or people that Jeff can talk to/Tim can intimidate/Mike can use illusions on. Two of the Pcs are designed for subterfuge (Jeff and Mike), two are multi-purpose (fitting in any place where they can smash faces). An espionage circumstance too might be good for forging, or perhaps an area where identities are important, letting Jeff make fake IDs. Or fake noble papers to get them into somewhere. And since Tim wants to charge, not too many encounters in cramped spaces. So I should run some sort of city game, or at least somewhere in relative civilization."Bill of course has the right (and for drama/variety) should use encounters where one of the Pcs are not perfect. Undead on occasion (even if Jeff/Mike can't do anything to them). On occasion unintelligent enemies (so no social skills, but they can still beat the hell out of them). On occasion a purely RP circumstance, so that while Erin is out of luck, the other three characters have stuff they can do. If Bill had said "hey guys I'm going to run you through dungeon crawls", then Jeff was stupid for choosing a sociable, forgery-focused rogue, and Mike should have thought "Well, I'll probably be fighting a lot of things immune to illusions, so I shouldn't play an illusionist," and Bill would not be to blame. Even at that point Jeff and Mike brought their characters to the table, Bill doesn't have to change his game, but dropping a few social encounters or illusion-capable monsters, or wide areas (large caverns, big meeting rooms, etc etc) into his dungeons to toss a bone to those players would be the right thing to do.There are different phases during this entire thing. First, Bill should say what campaign he's going to run, so players can shape their PCs to that. Once he does so (or chooses not to), then it's the PLAYER's responsibility to eachother to not make a PC that ruins anyone else's fun (the 4 stealth PCs, 1 heavy armored paladin example) or that breaks the themed campaign if Bill had made one (the mounted PC on a ship example). Once the phase of character creation is over and the DM has approved, the responsibility is on the DM.Because this situation is what I see more often, and the situation that prevents the mounted PC. Not APs,not specifically themed games, not this or that, but the DM just creating his adventures without the PCs and their capabilities in mind. The DM making adventures in a vacuum.</blockquote>

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